Controllable Variables: A Conversation with Writer, Producer and Actor Dan Bucatinsky

Clocking in at almost 500 interviews here at Script magazine, I have undoubtedly spoken with dozens upon dozens of creatives who have provided rare gems of practical and actionable advice and inspiration. And many of those gems I’ve put in my toolbox as a creative myself, utilizing what spoke and aligned with my values and creative trajectory.

And there’s conversations that I’ve had that made me both mentally and physically amped up. Ready to seize the day and take control of my creative outlet and process. There’s been a lot of doom and gloom (both worldwide and right here in Hollywood), but we have our art and will always have our art. It’s what we choose to do with it – and I hope for you dear reader, whether you’re a writer, director, editor, painter, poet, a multi-hyphenate juggernaut – whatever your artistic being is – you are creating it for yourself and are sharing with others.

Now, most recently, I spoke with another creative force for Script – a multi-hyphenate game changer (and yes, a juggernaut). Dan Bucatinsky (Web Therapy, The Comeback, Hacks). Having been aware of his career over the last 20+ years, he’s a face and for many a name, that comes up again, and again, and again (and for good reason). He’s an actor, a producer, a show creator and as mentioned above – a game changer. When there’s no path, he creates it. While the industry continues to change, he has found his way – again, finding a path not taken (yet). He’s witnessed first-hand the television landscape shift, from network to premium cable to streaming. And through all of that – he finds his way.   

The conversation that follows was both an eye opener and rekindling of the fire that I had lost along the way. And I hope it sparks something for you too. Take charge. Lean into what you can control. Tell your stories.

This interview has been edited for content and clarity.

Sadie Dean: You have a very extensive creative background. You wear and continue to wear many creative hats as an actor, producer, creator. When did it dawn on you to pivot creatively, especially with the shifting and ever evolving TV landscape?

Dan Bucatinsky: I love to say that I masterminded all of it, and I strategically plan to shift and bend when I need to. [laughs] The truth of the matter is, like in the most probably relatable way for anybody in our or any industry, I go where the work is. When I'm offered an opportunity, if it's exciting or if it's interesting, or if it's different, or if it's challenging…

I was always an actor first. I pivoted into writing as a necessity, really, because I found that there's no better advocate for me as an actor than me as a writer. If you take matters into your own hands, you can cast yourself and if you write something, you can cast other people. And slowly but surely, I became very excited by the ability to create opportunity, not just for myself, but for other people.

It's so hard, especially these days, for people to find work, and the more you are part of the making of stories and television shows and different forms of entertainment, the more you can not only maybe help employ yourself, and for me, it's come from a variety of different places - being just an actor, not to minimize that craft, but to just be an actor is a very difficult task these days. I tell every young performer, 'Don't let this be the only thing.' A, it's good to round out and have other skills. But B, you're far more able to make a living if you can also... sew clothes, if you're a designer, if you're an editor, if you're also a social media person, if you can build on other areas.

I've always been a writer also, but didn't realize it. I met my husband a long time ago, and he's an acclaimed screenwriter, and was even when I met him, and he was a huge encourager of me to write, and writing became the path for me to put myself in a play, and then I adapted the play into a movie, and then the movie became a sales tool for me to write a pilot.

And then I was writing pilots for 10 years, and Lisa Kudrow and I started a company together, and we produced. So, producing really grew out of my realization that nobody will ever care more about something, a story, an idea, a project, the trajectory of anything, than you will if you're a creator.

The shorter answer to what you were asking me, is that I have learned to pivot as a necessity, but also because there's no better currency than your own passion for an idea or for a project. And so, I became a producer out of the desire to see something get done the way I had envisioned it.

Sadie: You've done film and TV, and you've done various types of TV, game shows, documentary, drama, comedy - all of it. Do you find that there's a difference, or maybe any overlap, between producing for TV and film?

Dan: Well, there is some overlap. There are some universal truths to be told, and I can still use the word universal until Paramount buys it. [laughs] But there are some universal truths that have to do with surrounding yourself with people who are great collaborators and see things the same way. Regardless of what you're doing, you want to surround yourself with people who share your values, who are going to treat each other kindly, who like to collaborate and know how to collaborate, who see the project the same way you do, or are somehow additive in the way that they see the project.

Lisa and I didn't always see everything the same way. And we yin and yang each other in a really great way. Lisa is a razor-sharp genius about story and character and the nitty gritty, and I'm more of a big picture person. So together, we really were the right pairing for a 15-year partnership in television, and we would each tackle things differently.

But knowing who to surround yourself with is important in film, in television, in documentary, in whatever you're going to do. Knowing who you can trust. Anybody on the planet will give you notes. Everyone has an opinion. You know what they say about opinions. And Don [Roos] taught me years ago that the most important thing is to know who to take notes from. You want to take notes from people who are fans of you. Are fans of what you are embarking on doing, and have your best interest in mind. You don't want to just take criticism or share your ideas with just anybody.

And the other really bigger truth that I have always told people who want to produce really, really try to understand the difference between a controllable variable and an uncontrollable variable. When Lisa and I were producing, Who Do You Think You Are? that's a very specific television show. It's a format that grew out of the UK that Alex Graham created. Lisa and I were instrumental in bringing it to American audiences, and we were proud to do 10 seasons of it, but that's a documentary series that's based in research. It's based on a real celebrity. They're real family documents, and the historians that we collaborate with to help us find a narrative.

Now, you can't make up stories when you're basing it on research, and you can't make up the schedule of a celebrity and when they're available to shoot. So when you're putting together a show like that, you not only have to entrust the research to someone that you hope is going to find it, and you either will or you won't, and then you hope that your celebrity is available to shoot it when you need them to shoot it, and they either are or they're not. And you can't always control those things.

But understanding what it is that you do have control over, well, what's the narrative of the story here, once we find the document? Once we know the dates that they're available, now we have controllable variables. Who is the director that we can put on this project that's perfect? That's a controllable variable. Who do we hire? Who's going to make sure that our celebrity is treated in a way that makes them feel calm and not anxious and is going to give us the best interview? Those are controllable variables.

And this is true in scripted also... what's on the page is a controllable variable, whether the network sees the show the same way you do, is not necessarily a controllable variable. … [L]ack of control and what we do and don't have control over. And in producing and in writing and in acting, you check off different boxes in that area.

Sadie: I’ve always equated being a producer is like being a fireman, you have your fire extinguisher ready – there will be something out of your control, but you have the tools to put it back together. Always have a contingency plan.

Dan: Yeah. And as a writer… you have control over whether you pick up the pen every day and write for 30 minutes. It doesn't mean that what you write has to eventually sell or has to be brilliant or has to be even read by anybody, but you have control over your ability to block out an hour a day and turn off the internet and write, and it doesn't have to be a result. You don't have control over what you're going to write. You don't have control over whether anyone's going to like it. You don't have control over whether it turns into something that sells.

You can set off to write a best seller, but that's a task that's like saying I'm going to set off to win an Oscar, or I'm going to set off to win the lottery, that's a fool's errand. But a controllable variable is what time you wake up, what time you set aside to write, the fact that you show up for that appointment and you click the keyboard and you just get some thoughts on paper. Controllable variable.

Take notes from a smart person who cares about you and trusts you and wants the best for you, then taking their notes and seeing how you're able to work them in and see if it's additive, and make the thing you're working on better. Controllable variable.

And then when you love it, and you put it out into the universe, whether someone buys it or not, not a controllable variable. It's painful, but every day is like, what do I have control over today? And what do I not? It's always a question I tell every actor, writer, producer... it's a good thing to think about.

Sadie: Yeah, it’s like the art of stoicism. You wake up, you have in control over how you want to start your day, what tone, what you’d like to accomplish - that you know that can be done.

With the industry landscape changing so much, and we're entering yet another new era of TV and film, how are you approaching pitching yourself and your projects, and what projects? Has it changed at all?

Dan: On the actor front, I have far less control. [laughs] There are far fewer controllable variables. When an opportunity comes my way, I certainly want to see if it's something that's interesting, funny, worthwhile doing, and if it is, I'll audition, I'll put myself on tape. I'm not shy, or my ego's not too big... certainly I am no longer doing one-line roles, you know, walk on parts anymore, because I just don't have the time to and I feel lucky enough to have been working for a good long time. So, on the acting front, though.... opportunities are so few and far between, believe it or not... I consider each one of those opportunities to be very precious, especially to work on some of the projects that I've been able to work on.

So, the opportunity to be on Hacks was a no brainer. I admire the show, I like the show, I watch the show. I would love to be a part of that show, whether it's in the part that I thought I could play or wanted to play. I want to be a part of that world. And sometimes I'll reach out to my representatives and say, ‘Look, I'm a fan of this creator. I'm a fan of this cast. I like the writing on this show. If I could find my way on to something that they're doing that would be amazing.’

When it comes to how we approach things these days, I have to say it's the Wild West. I don't know. I don't have the answers. It's very hard to sell. I've got multiple movie projects that I'm trying to finance right now. And I don't know a lot about financing. So, I surround myself with people who do and then I just focus on the words on the page, who's going to direct this and who we can put in the project that makes it more appealing. That producing job is something that I can do. I have relationships, so I that's a controllable variable for me. I'm not a finance guy, so I don't know venture capitalists that are going to give me money, but I want to meet the people who do know those people, so I work on that.

Nowadays… because of consolidation, [there’s] fewer and fewer buyers. The studios are starting to diminish, and all get swallowed up by bigger studios. And it doesn't necessarily mean that there's going to be more work for us. It means that we need to be more creative about the way we go about doing things, believe it or not, it's not that different from back in the day when you wanted to make a movie, you wrote it and you begged people to cough up a couple of $100,000 and go shoot it on your phone - those things still happen.

And what's fascinating is that when we made Web Therapy, we were not looking to enter the world of new media. The term ‘new media’ was brand new. We weren't necessarily seeking out to do that, but an opportunity lent itself, and a brand sponsor was willing to kick in some bucks for us to make some short form content. And one thing led to another, and we were making short form content that was brand sponsored, that then led to licensing it to a platform. We were becoming a little mini studio at a time that that wasn't really happening. Now it's 10-12 years later, and it's kind of the name of the game.

You can't really make things anymore without some brand sponsorship, you can't really make things anymore without feeling like you hope that you can hang on to some ownership of it. YouTube has exploded as a place where a content creator could just go ahead, find a way to tell that story, put it out there, and if the eyeballs come, so will the money.

The hard thing is that when you've been working a long time, you're tired and you don't want to wait. And sometimes this is a waiting game, but it's also kind of exciting to think about doing things the way we did when we were in our 20s. Let's get scrappy again. Get five actors together and a really good script, and find a way to put it up on YouTube.

Look at what's happening with Verticals. That's what Quibi was trying to do 10 years ago, and now it's like the name of the game. Young people are watching stories on their phones. Maybe we can tell stories in four-minute bites and then charge them for the additional episodes. Well, what an interesting idea to becoming a little studio on your own.

I'm a big advocate for hanging on to your original idea, getting it made, and not just seeking fame, fortune and awards. It's just tell your story. Find a way to tell your story. And that's really been the way it's been since kids were in film school when I was in my 20s. We just have to have that. We have to still have that feeling, that kind of roll up your sleeve, scrappy attitude about making stuff regardless of how much we get paid.

And that leads to that other thing, which is that you better have something else that is helping you pay your bills, if that's what you love, because in our business these days, there's fewer and fewer guarantees. Even if you wind up a writer on a television show, you used to be able to make living doing 24 episodes a year. Now, you get on a show and you've won. You got a great job. It's eight episodes, and you may not work again after those eight episodes for another year. So, it's become more and more important that you learn to do something else that you can sustain yourself with.

Sadie: One of the greatest shows of all time is finally coming back... The Comeback. There’s some shows that overstay their welcome and there’s some shows that go off air too soon – The Comeback is one of those shows that was incredibly missed.  What was it like revisiting those characters? And also, talk about timing – what you’re able to tackle subject wise in the show.

Dan: Well, look, there's no question that this was a passion project from jump... This is not the way it was intended. This wasn't a master plan. From the beginning, we made the show... and then... what happened after that was, we didn't get a pickup. And what happened over the 10 years in between, is that people found it and loved it, and we always loved it, and Lisa always loved playing Valerie Cherish.

What inadvertently occurred was a desire on our part to imagine what has happened to Valerie over a longer period of time, and what again, was such a fortunate happenstance in 2014 is to get to come back into a season two that many years later, exploring not only how this one woman, this actress, this one person who just wants to work and be in the industry and be relevant and visible, how she fits into the new landscape of television 10 years later.

And then, of course, there's never been a lack of desire on our part to revisit Valerie, revisit the world around her, and for all of us, Michael [Patrick King] and Lisa and me, who love working together - there's never a lack of desire. It's just as a matter of enough time passes for us to reexamine, what has she been doing? Who is she now? How has the marriage been impacted? How has her relationships been impacted? And in the bigger scheme of things, how is the landscape of our business now, 12 years later, impacted this one same woman that we've come to love and filtering her experience through the bigger, seismic changes that have happened in our industry. That's what The Comeback has come to mean.

The title of The Comeback is now so ironic, because we come back now a decade at a time. I think it's the first series in history that's taken 22 years to make three seasons. But we have talked about such big, big things through the prism and the point of view of one person, and it's absolutely thrilling. It feels like such a gift to be able to tell these kinds of stories, the small ones, but also these big, seismic ones, and especially right now. So, I'm tickled... we were in heaven, and it was really emotional.

Sadie: It’s so fun to play in that sandbox, I’m sure. And be this kind of time capsule of the industry.

Dan: And I encourage people too, who haven't ever seen The Comeback to go back and see season one, because it really is like a time capsule of what it felt like for someone who felt the threat, writers who felt the threat of reality, eating away at their ability to make a living. And then in season two, broadcast network writers and what the impact of that was and how premium cable became the only way, the dark comedy became the only way to push through and then now it's 12 years later, and the threat of AI eroding our ability to work. Is it? Is it really eroding our ability to work? Or is there a way for us to embrace reality and a new reality, and find a way to work with both truths. You know, we don't have to necessarily demonize or create an enemy out of anyone or anything. Maybe there's a way for us to find new paths to creativity, even with technology. And it's an interesting question to posit, and it's something that we talk about on the show.

Catch Dan Bucatinsky in the new season of The Comeback, with new episodes now streaming on HBO.