INDIE SPOTLIGHT: Interview with ‘Rabbit Hole’ Short Film Writer-Director Aaron Schoonover

Entering cautiously into adulthood, a shy eighteen year old attempts to balance “coming out” of his shell with an erratic home life and an unhinged QAnon mother.

Rabbit Hole has all the wonderful nuances and intricacies of a seasoned filmmaker and storyteller. Even though this is filmmaker Aaron Schoonover's second short film, this one is "bigger" and deals with complex issues that are familiar and familial. And you'd be hard-pressed to believe that this is actor Nate Frison's film debut. Aaron and his team showcase kindness, tenderness, and love in this film - and the film is deservedly receiving high accolades and many, many, film festival screenings. Just recently, the short film took home Best Cinematography at the Vermont Fim Festival and Best Ensemble at the Bridgeport Film Festival.

This interview has been edited for content and clarity.

Sadie Dean: I’d love to hear about the process of how you came upon this story?

Aaron Schoonover: I knew I wanted to do a queer coming-of-age story, but as I was outlining and coming up with ideas, everything felt like a little derivative of like things we've seen before. And then I happened, funnily enough, to be on TikTok, and I saw someone posted a screengrab of a Reddit thread called QAnon casualties. And it was this really sad story of this man recounting what his wife was going through with QAnon, a very intense spiral. And I was like, 'This is a movie, and why hasn't this been made yet?' 

So, I got on Reddit, and I went to QAnon Casualties, looking through thousands of posts, it kind of hit me like, because I wrote it in 2021, so QAnon was kind of still being talked about, we'd seen it on The Daily Show…but then reading all of these, I was like, 'Holy shit, these are real people who go home to real families.' And a lot of the posts were from kids, high schoolers, and college-age kids who were like, 'My mom doesn’t want me to get vaccinated,’ or ‘My parents said I can't come home for Christmas, because I got vaccinated at college.' And it was really heartbreaking and sad. I couldn't wrap my head around all the conspiracies and the things that they were doing. So that's kind of how it clicked. And I was like, ‘Oh, I could do a chosen family story, coming of age with this, and the conflict is not the homophobic drunk dad, but the loving, caring mom who is going down off the deep end.’ So that was kind of the conception of it.

And then, when I was writing it out, I kind of wrote all of the nice things first, like that relationship with Dom and Blake, and then going into the mom stuff. It was hard, because I felt like I wasn't versed in QAnon. I really wanted it to be grounded and I didn't want QAnon people to watch it and have the chance to say, ‘Oh, he's trying to make us look stupid.’ So, I ended up just watching a bunch of interviews and a bunch of clips that I could find, and not verbatim, but like really kind of sticking to what they were saying. And that whole beginning part, where she’s talking about JFK, that’s almost pulled straight from this woman who was speaking at a rally, just because I didn't want it to be like, ‘I'm making them look silly. ‘Like, no, these were things that were actually said. So yeah, I did want to be careful with it. And then bringing Catherine [Curtin] on was interesting, because I think she added such a layer of warmth, that maybe was there on the page, but I didn't have it until she did it and I was like, 'Wow.'

Sadie: There’s definitely this softness and innocence from her specifically, and you really feel for her.

Aaron: Yeah, she's great. That character originally, being in Ohio, I was there a lot during the quarantine and since then, and there's this woman that I always see - not a specific woman - but this type of woman who does CrossFit, has tattoos on her arms, loves Bud Light, that's kind of what I was envisioning - that kind of rough tough woman. And then when Catherine responded to the script and we talked, she still has that kind of energy, but it's so maternal and I love what she did with it. And she gave us so much when we were filming. We did so many takes, because she was being thoughtful, ‘I just want to make sure you have so much when we get into the edit.’ And I kind of knew what I wanted from it. But we played around, and we did a lot. I could have edited her arc five different ways and gotten totally different outcomes.

Sadie: She’s absolutely fantastic. And speaking of characters, what was the process behind creating these individual voices and characters?

Aaron: I love the Blake character a lot, and I feel like it's something that I'm still kind of working through as an adult - I still kind of feel like I'm 14 sometimes - but being gay, back in the early 2000s, in high school was very different than it is now, and I think I carry a lot of that kind of with me. So, it was almost cathartic to have him have this experience. And then, Dom is kind of who I want to be, you know what I mean? Free-spirited, but again non-judgmental, he's just like, 'No, I don't want to be in Ohio. I want to do other things.' And kind of the catalyst for Blake to realize, ‘I'm an adult, and I can actually do whatever I want now.’ So, it was fun to write those.

Denise was a little bit more sad. I feel like I've had a couple of relationships with people who are very malleable to their personal relationships and kind of sometimes feel like their personality is dictated by who they're with; so that was kind of my idea going into it was like, she got caught up with a man who was into it, and now she's going down…kind of like her searching for someone…

Sadie: Yeah, it’s like she's grasping for something - she wants to be seen or have a community. And it comes off as real and authentic – we see those people in real life, like those finding religion, because they need that community.

Aaron: Exactly. That's what it is. I feel like that's a lot of people who are getting caught up in this or it's the camaraderie of it. It's the putting pieces together. Join a gym, do Pilates instead. [laughs]

Sadie: [laughs] Plant trees! With your casting background, how did that help you in terms of getting this cast but helping you as a director and engaging with your actors on the performance level? You get so much out of this cast, down to Nate Frison, those close-ups of his eyes say it all.

Aaron: Yeah. I love Nate [Frison] who plays Blake so much. By the end of it, I was like, 'You're my son now.' [laughs] But I struggled with kind of going into it. I was like, ‘I'm gonna make this film. And I can either do it with no budget and just random actors from Ohio or I can try to raise money and see what happens.’

I was really focusing in on a Sean Baker aesthetic; I love the film Tangerine, The Florida Project, and Red Rocket. The way he works with non-actors is phenomenal. So, I was like, ‘I feel like I understand actors, I want to try that.’ I found Nate through Kent State University, which is where I went. And immediately Zoomed with him. I did a couple with the guys there, and I going in was like, ‘They're going to be big, they're going to be broad, they’re musical theater.’ And most of them were, and I could have worked with them. But as soon as he came on, he was just so simple. And like you said, expressive without doing a lot. I was like, ‘He's the winner.’ He just had the essence of what I needed. And I think that's kind of what I have focused on.

I cast a lot of shorts for first-time directors, too. And it can get a little frustrating sometimes, because these are like our babies. And not only that, but we have probably a lot of personal finances going into it…the stakes are high. But I've learned from watching great directors like Ben Stiller, when we do callbacks, the way that he may have a vision in mind, but the way he'll meet the actor where they are and kind of let them do their thing, it's just interesting... just the way he's able to meet the actor where they are and go from there.

I think a lot of directors get caught up in a very specific thing they're looking for. And I really was just like ‘focus on the essences.’ And when I saw Drake's [Tobias] reel, who plays Dom, I was just like, ‘Yes.‘ He had this free spirit thing. And I was like, ‘I really don't even need to see him audition,’ but I did a Zoom with him anyway and read a scene with him. And it's funny because he actually was like, 'Are you sure this is the role you want me for? Because I'm way more of a Blake.' I just got really lucky with them. And I was like, I think I can work with it and make it happen.

I was going to do the same for Denise and then we ended up having a successful crowdfund and I was able to put some more funds into that role and fly someone out. And I'm really glad I got Catherine, and I think she did such a great job at grounding what could have been very silly.

Sadie: Shooting this in your home state, what was the importance for you shooting it Ohio, but also the benefit of shooting there as well?

Aaron: Oh, yeah. I mean, I didn't pay for any locations. I was so lucky that we had family friends who let us shoot at the sub station place and it was so perfect with the twinkle lights in the ceiling. Then, my optometrist let me shoot at her house for Drake's, that gorgeous, beautiful house in the woods. And then my house I grew up in was Blake's house. And it was funny because my mom and dad were in the middle of painting and renovating some things, and they were like, 'Let us finish, let us finish!' And I was like, 'No.' [laughs] So if you see some of the shots, there's a half-painted wall and my mom was watching it, so embarrassed. And I'm like, ‘Mom it's supposed to look like this.’ And I did all that production design myself, which I don't ever want to have to do again. Hopefully, the next one I can have a real production designer. [laughs] But I got really lucky with locations. And then just people chipping in, like my mom was a PA and she ran and got our food. And she was making sure everybody was happy. It was a really full-circle moment.

And this is maybe a cheesy story, but I'll tell it; our last day of filming was a Sunday, and it was when there was that blood red moon last year, it was that day, so we were setting up for the final shot of them in sub station, and everybody was outside and I was like, 'What's going on?' And I went out and the blood red moon was having an Eclipse. It was really beautiful. And we were all watching it. And I just started crying. [laughs] I was just overwhelmed, I think just by everything - it had been such a crazy weekend, but just so grateful. And I pull it together and went in and did the last shot and then I cried again going home. But I looked it up and the blood red moon signifies rebirth and a new path. And I was like ‘This just feels so Kismet.’ Being in my hometown, with my mom and dad, my friends as extras - it was crazy. I used to take my mom's camcorder and make movies with my friends as Power Rangers or whatever, and now I was doing this legit thing there. So, it was really cool experience. I would recommend it to anyone.

Sadie: How did you get into this industry as a casting director, and decide to make that transition over to writing and directing?

Aaron: I've always just been interested in pop culture and movies when I was young. Growing up in Ohio, there really was only show choir and drama departments, so I didn't really know that this world existed. I went to school for musical theater. And then as soon as I moved to New York, and I started doing these web series, I was like, ‘This is where it's at.’

And then I've always loved the casting element of when I was in theater. I did a casting practicum. When I got to the city, I was assisting a director and I was helping him cast some readings and some shorts. I was at that transition moment where I couldn't wait tables anymore, I just was like, ‘I need a stable job.’ And I got a job working at Central Casting, which was just meant to be a stepping stone. And I got stuck there a little bit too long. I'm not built for the corporate world at all, but it did lead to really great relationships and that's how I met Jennifer Euston and her associate S.J. Allocco through Orange is the New Black, which is really the only reason I stayed at Central because I loved working on that show so much. And then I moved into principal casting with Jen and S.J. And I was like, ‘I wish that I had done this sooner,’ it's really hard to break into principal casting.

And then I had kind of just forgot that I was also writing at the time and trying to do all of this. And when the pandemic hit, I came across this thing of shadow careers, where you pick something that's safer than what you really want to be doing so that you don't fail at it. And not to say I don't love casting, because I really do. I enjoy it a lot. But I think what I wanted to be doing was directing all along. And I just was maybe scared to do that, because I didn't go to film school and had imposter syndrome and all that fun stuff. That was kind of during the pandemic, I was like, ‘I'm going to do a short,’ so I did a really short proof of concept with John [Gebhart]. And then I was like, ‘Let's do something big,’ and we did Rabbit Hole. So that's kind of been the journey and I'm so glad to have casting as a stable paycheck to let me then do the writing and directing as well.

Sadie: For those making shorts, what’s the benefit of having a casting director?

Aaron: Casting, it's really multifaceted. Which is what I like so much about it, because it does have the elements of producing and directing and working with actors. And I think you being able to think outside the box like I mentioned before, how sometimes when I'm casting shorts for people, it is hard to kind of get them to visualize something different. And I had to do that to myself, with Catherine - she's not the tattooed, CrossFit mom, I was envisioning, but when I allowed myself to go there, I was like, 'Yes, it works.'

I think too, that actors have such a hard job, especially unrepresented actors who are navigating their own auditions and submissions, which tends to be a lot of short films. I have a close actor friend who posts casting calls sometimes or messages about self-tapes. And I'm just like, 'Oh, clearly, they don't have a casting person, they need a casting person.' So, I do think it's important, because casting knows how to speak to actors, they know how to get the tape and get what they want and need from it. Which was also helpful when we were filming too, because audition scenes are like, each has a purpose, what's the important beat here? When I was going through the script, each scene was really important to me to know what's the most important thing here? What am I looking for? From the actors?

And I think it's hard now too, because a decent amount of shorts are casting big-name actors. And it seems maybe that's the only way to get into festivals now is to have a big name attached. And I think that's hard for people who don't have the connection to be like, 'Well, why won't Oscar Isaac do my short?' [laughs] So that is hard sometimes when people are trying to get a name with no money and no connection to them, but casting can help with that. If you do have the budget, casting sometimes does have the relationships and is able to make things happen like that. I think you can have a casting director on your short - do it.

Sadie: Did you walk away with any big learning curves or “aha” moments on this short?

Aaron: The main one, I think for me was imposter syndrome and not letting it get the best of you. And I think when I was first trying to start with Rabbit Hole, I was kind of grasping at like, producers or someone to guide me or help me, and then I realized, I just had to forge forward on my own. And I literally decided on a Thursday, I recorded my video on a Friday, and our Seed & Spark was live on a Monday, and I just like, ‘We're doing it.’ I picked a date, and I just went for it. And then as the crowdfunding was happening, a person I went to high school with, Nic Neary, our producer, I don't even think I spoke to him in high school, now lives in LA and is a producer, and was somehow forwarded, and was like, ‘I'll come to Ohio and help you produce this.’ So, things like that happened along the way. And I think it's that “if you build it, they will come” kind of attitude. That would be kind of the key advice for people is to just go do it.

I think too, a lot of first-time filmmakers watch feature films they love, but maybe haven't seen a lot of short films, or maybe have only seen the really good ones that ended up at Sundance or whatever. So, I think watching a lot of shorts was helpful too, to know kind of what the pitfalls are, and just knowing what works and what doesn't work. And kind of going in, I knew that our length was really long, but I was like, ‘I'm just going to stick with it and do it.’ But knowing what's out there already and what's working is helpful.

Rabbit Hole will be screening at the upcoming film festivals:

Burbank International Film Festival - September 22, 2023

Reeling: Chicago LGBTQ Film Fest - October 1, 2023

The Chelsea Film Festival - October 12-15, 2023

Santa Fe International - October 19-22, 2023

Coronado International Film Festival - November 8- 12, 2023

Visit www.rabbitholeshort.com and follow on Instagram @rabbithole_film for festival screenings and news.