INDIE SPOTLIGHT: Interview with Comedy Web Series ‘Before Marriage’ Writer-Director Courteney Pape

In this six episode, romantic comedy short form series, a couple starts planning a life together but their ideas for partnership may be too far apart.

There's nothing better than watching a comedy that just goes for the jugular, and Courtney Pape and team certainly have done that in the soon-to-be-released six-episode short series, Before Marriage. Courtney examines specific key topics and life themes all couples should address when courting and definitely well before they say "I do" from having children to wearing shoes in your house. 

This interview has been edited for content and clarity.

Sadie Dean: Were you approaching this material from a personal place, or maybe from observing from other couples?

Courtney Pape: Yeah, it definitely came from a mixture of both, my own personal experience, and friends - people I was encountering. And I think I was just more inspired by the lack of communication between couples, and how much people don't talk about things before getting to a certain point in a relationship, and especially marriage. And obviously, conflict is going to come up or disagreement. And, of course, you can never discuss everything that's going to come up before marriage. But the whole idea is that you talk about some things or how you would discuss this or go about it. And I just found out that a lot of people don't [laughs] a lot of people don't talk about this stuff. And I was really shocked. So, the kernel of the idea kind of started more from that. And then it was actually a little more sketchier, I would say, in tone. I come from a comedy background, I didn't mean it to be sketchy, but it just definitely was. And then the more we worked on it, the more it kind of felt like grounded narrative storytelling.

Sadie: You could have told this story in different narrative formats, like a feature or this whole series could have been a standalone pilot. So why a web series?

Courtney: It was the way I saw it - kind of like vignettes. And yeah, to like you said, I know it was written like that, but then it's like, right, OK, do I just take these title cards off? And are these just new scenes because they could be. I just liked it. I liked the title cards. And just like the same thing,I could screen it as a short film. It is screening as a short film at some film festivals, of course. But in terms of distribution, our attention span just isn't there. So, playing solely through, it's actually a very long short film. But if you cut it up into small pieces, then I think it's more digestible. And it's more fun. It goes quicker. It just kind of worked out.

My last project too was a short series Hermit. And same thing, it was just how it was written and how it came out. And I feel like all of our content right now, it's somewhere in the middle. I have the ability to tell a longer story than just a short film, but I don't have enough money or time to do something bigger. So, what's the middle? I think that's really what it was. I want to put 20 minutes of film out there. And I want to divide it up, so people actually watch it.

Sadie: When writing these characters, there's a very specific rhythm between these two, how much was that on the page? Or was it more so on the day of filming, trusting your actors to run with the material?

Courtney: Yeah, a little bit of both. I'm very open to improv. I welcome it 100%. I was like, ‘You guys improv,’ but then they kind of stuck to the script. But I think to your point, it was just because it was super quick, the read, I really wanted it to be fast. And that was in the rehearsals, it was just faster, just like ‘rat-a-tat-tat’ back and forth. So there just really wasn't, I think, a lot of room for improv. But I definitely gave them free rein and they did do a little bit here and there.

We definitely improved every button, except for probably the last one because that was scripted. And that, to me is a testament to the actors. And I guess just my background in comedy, knowing that just because I write a button and it looks really great on the page doesn't mean that it's going to hit the best once you're on set, because it just doesn't feel maybe right coming out of the actor's mouth or we're in a different setting. You have to improvise together as a collaborative team. And we have to figure out what the best button is there. And of course, that's the whole point; they find stuff that I wouldn't even think about.

Sadie: What was the collaboration like with your cinematographer, and finding the overall tone and aesthetic of the film? And did you shoot on two cameras for the sake of coverage and time?

Courtney: I love Olesia (Saveleva) so much. She's a fantastic cinematographer. And we work really well together because we’ve worked before together. This is our third project as cinematographer and director and we work together on other sets as well. So, we have a really good shorthand already. We shot list a lot, we location scout together and we'll take actual stills. Two Days in Paris was a huge reference for me cinematically, but also for chemistry and dialogue. And she loved that, that was great for her. But it was really the location that I think made everything kind of come alive.

And then when we were talking about the camera stuff, we wanted to use something, because we were going to be doing a lot of guerrilla stuff and on the move, we wanted it to be as small as possible. So, we used a Sony FX3, which we had used actually before on Hermit. It's a great small body camera if anyone's not familiar with it. She even did camera tests with some of the bigger ones and with different lenses and all that stuff…she couldn't tell a difference. So, we were like, ‘Great, we’re using the Sony FX, we're going to be nimble, we're going to be mobile, we're going to be in tight spaces.’ Because even on the interior, we were in a very small studio apartment with a bunch of people. So, there was not a lot of room. We did use cinematic lenses and some gold shimmer glass to really get that warmth in there, which I really like, especially in that summer. We did end up renting a second camera just to have, thinking, like you said, we want more angles and we don't have a lot of time. We were shooting ten-plus pages a day. So, we wanted that second camera, but I will say we ended up not using it that much, surprisingly, because it was the timing of it and the shadows and where it was gonna be, again I'm glad we did it. It was a good learning lesson.

Sadie: Tell us about your filmmaking journey and how you got into comedy.

Courtney: Well, I started off acting, since I was young - that's just what I was into. And I was very serious about it. I auditioned to be a theater major when I went to college, and I ended up going to UCLA as a theater major. After college, I was doing a bunch of internships and different things on the business side because I wanted to learn about the business and the industry, which was smart of me. I'm really glad I did that. But at the time, I was at a management company and I told one of the managers, ‘I think I want to get into comedy.’ And he was like, ‘Go to the Groundlings or UCB.’ I had never heard of UCB. I wasn't a comedy nerd, per se. I was a theater nerd. So, I went. I had heard of the Groundlings, but I didn't know about UCB. I went to an Asssscat show. And I was floored. I had never seen long-form improv like that. And I really just thought it was magic. I thought all of these people were brilliant and I thought it was so much fun. And it was stupid. And I loved that, obviously, nothing was taken too seriously, it's the exact opposite of my theater training. I just fell in love.

Immediately after that, I just signed up for a class - I was just like, ‘I'm in.’ And after 101, I got an internship at UCB so I could get free classes. And I interned there for a year. And I would say that internship was honestly better than any class I took; I was there once a week, watching all the shows, watching all these brilliant people improvise and do sketches and put up their shows for free, and that was insane. And I wish everyone could do that. If those programs are still going on in LA, Chicago, New York, wherever, if you're into comedy, just go to shows just or intern - do whatever you can to get in there. And that was the best education I ever had.

But that's when I started writing. I was like, ‘Oh, I think I can do this.’ I wanted to write stuff for myself or other people. But that was also interesting - once I started writing sketches, and you start putting it up like at UCB, they have open mics or sketches, and I would start casting my friends. [laughs] And I was an actress, and I wasn't even casting myself. [laughs] So I think that's definitely when I started producing and directing, even though I wasn't really, if you will. I was starting to write character shows with friends. Comedy is really where I started to write and build my confidence and collaboration.

I always wanted to direct. I even remember, like in high school thinking, ‘I'll direct like later,’ once I have more education and I'm on sets more. But I just didn't think I could do it earlier. And we really couldn't do it earlier. With digital cameras, it just recently became available to people like me who didn't have film training. I think also I thought a good director was a cinematographer. I thought I had to know all of those things.

And then I was also auditioning as an actor. I auditioned for something, it was a guest star, and it just wasn't good. And I was like, ‘I could do better. And I want to do better. I want to put better work out there.’ And if this is what's getting out there, then we need help. [laughs] To the point where I was so excited to get this audition and I'm like, ‘This is embarrassing that I really want this part,’ because it's really bad. And it's not even like quit your day job money. You know what I mean? Like, what's the payoff? 

My roommate who I met at IO Improv Olympic at the time, he's a filmmaker, and he was gearing up for his second feature film. And I was like, ‘I want to be on set.’ He was one of the first people I told that I wanted to direct and he was just very crazy supportive. His name is Adam Bowers. His first film went to Sundance when we were living together. I watched him a lot, and he's a writer, director, editor, so I was living with him while he was doing all of those things…and seeing that process - the ups and the downs. And also, him going through his second thing and navigating the industry. Having him bring me on set for his second feature was huge. And once I was able to see him too on set, I was like, ‘Oh, I can do this,’ because I knew him as a person. And then you see him as a director and you're like, ‘That's all?’ I would say he was like a demystified it for me. 

And then after that, I kind of just went for it. And I was like, OK, ‘I'm gonna do it.’ And then you do your first one, and then once you do your first one, people can see that you're actually serious. And you deliver. I think that's another thing, whatever it is, you just have to deliver…

Sadie: Because you were a nimble team, shooting ten pages a day, did your improv background and training help you in terms of getting your days and getting your shots?

Courtney: Totally, indie filmmaking, or all of it is definitely improv for sure. So, I think that training is totally invaluable. And if nothing else, just knowing to be calm, like during the process of it, while you're making those decisions. The comedy stuff has just shown me yes, I can kind of see where I can cut or get this or that. But really, it's the actors, it's the casting. Same thing about delivering, you know what I mean? Maybe it's the bad writer-me, but I know J.J. [Nolan] is going to deliver. [laughs] I know that if I need J.J. to give me a button, she's gonna give me one and she's gonna give me more than one.

It was such an important part of the indie filmmaking experience that for Before Marriage we utilized SAG-AFTRA's micro-budget agreement for projects under $20,000. As an independent filmmaker, I'm so grateful to SAG-AFTRA for creating these agreements which allows truly low-budget independent productions like this one to be made.

Sadie: Any advice for those about tackling their first comedy short film head-on?

Courtney: I have found...if someone's interested in comedy, go out to that community, wherever you are. There's a community wherever you're living, I promise you even if it's just you getting together, and I don't know watching stuff, and talking about it, talking about sketches, SNL or Kids in the Hall - there are there are people out there. So, get on it and put up shows. Now looking back, the shows that we did for zero people, or like one person in the audience, those are great lessons. [laughs] And those are great shows. And looking back, you feel like such a loser. But you got to do it, you got to go through it, you got to do that stand-up show with your one friend in the audience. [laughs] It's part of the process. So, I would just say just start.

And the same thing with independent filmmaking, kind of what we were talking about before, you just have to do something. And I think, at least for me, what I've done is that I just do stuff, and then I try not to talk as much outside of a certain circle. So, that's the other thing. I have a certain circle of friends or artists, people that keep certain things safe or close to the vest that you can open up to, but don't talk about it too much. Just do it. Just shoot it. Just deliver. People will shut up once you deliver it.

Before Marriage will be released in November, stay tuned for updates!