INDIE SPOTLIGHT: An Interview with 2023 SXSW Narrative Feature ‘Pure O’ Filmmaker Dillon Tucker
Dillon Tucker recently spoke with Script about putting his vulnerability on the page, the tone of the film, his directing style and his biggest learning curve from his feature directorial debut.
Cooper Ganz's seemingly perfect life quickly unravels when he is diagnosed with
a crippling form of OCD called Pure Obsessional. This often-misunderstood
illness forces him to question his identity and sanity, all while trying to keep it together for his fiancé, family, and co-workers. As he struggles to accept his disease, and the vulnerability that comes along with it, his world starts to open up. The addiction recovery clients he works with at a high-end Malibu drug rehab center return the favor and help Cooper through his darkest hour. Throughout his personal journey, he must help himself and others tackle a litany of universal issues – grief, coming-of-age, addiction, redemption and the power of social connection.
Inspired by the filmmaker’s own story.
Pure O is a seemingly heavy drama as it deals with life complexities and a form of OCD not widely known. However, filmmaker Dillon Tucker ups the ante - the storytelling is vulnerable, honest, and remarkably, it feels real. That could be thanks to the two leads, Daniel Dorr and Hope Lauren, who are a real-life couple. As we follow Cooper, Dillon's semi-autobiographical self, as he navigates life, love, death, and everything in between, you're left with an abundance of hope. And for Angeleno's, you're in for a visual treat and a lot of fun easter eggs.
Dillon recently spoke with Script about putting his vulnerability on the page, the tone of the film, his directing style and his biggest learning curve from his feature directorial debut.
This interview has been edited for content and clarity.
Sadie Dean: This film was such a wonderful love letter to LA – being an LA native, it’s nice to see that.
Dillon Tucker: Yeah, me too! I was definitely going for undertones of that. Being from out here too… films The Long Goodbye by Robert Altman or something where you just have this main character getting into stuff around LA, in different parts of the city. There's something about that. I love films where it's not like one neighborhood in LA, but it's just people moving around the city. Yeah, I loved that you picked up on that. That's great.
Sadie: Well, thank you for that! Knowing that this is semi-autobiographical, was writing this cathartic in any way for you? It’s a lot of vulnerability on the page, you know, you're bleeding on the page, essentially.
Dillon: I mean, first of all, the whole project is meta in so many ways. The the main characters learning the lesson that vulnerability is courage. From the outset of this thing was pretty meta. In terms of catharsis, I don't know. It wasn't really that cathartic if I'm being honest, because this is my life maybe eight years ago, and I was very intentional about it. So, when I was going through everything, I threw down just a little outline and bullet points and just threw it together. But I knew that I didn't want to write it when I was going through it, because I knew that there's no way that I was going to be able to see through the trees, and then it was just going to be shrouded in my own bias. And so, I knew it was a project that I didn't even know if I'd circle back to it. But I wanted to get it all down, because it was obviously an intense period of life, I had a lot going on. And more than anything, I just thought that I didn't have my own knowledge of this illness when I was going through the onset of it.
I thought it would just be very interesting, cinematically to show a character and there's no films out there that really accurately depict this thing. Every TV show or film sort of just has the quirky detective with OCD or something like that. There's not a true to life, from my experience, as a sufferer, I wasn't able to really find anything that really showed my experience on the screen.
I had it in a drawer. And I keep saying that I didn't want to write it when I was going through it for the reasons that I just outlined, but I didn't want to write it so far removed, that I couldn't access things. I wanted to write it right in that sweet spot where I was through everything, and I processed and I moved on with my life, but I can still remember it. And as the writer, I was remembering things and writing things down like it was still fresh enough that I could remember those pieces, I could remember elements of conversations.
I wrote it really early in the pandemic. I was just sitting at home like everybody else - I was looking at what I was going to write next, because what else was I gonna do at home as a writer? Actually, I was loving the beginning of the pandemic, for that aspect of I can stay home and write all day. I love this. And I pulled this one out and it was very intuitive. It was just like, I feel like it's time. And the reason it felt like time was that I didn't feel a sense of a charge with it when I was looking at it. It was just sort of like, ‘OK, I think this is fine.’
And to varying degrees throughout the process, because then obviously, I'm making the film and I was very intentional, I cast a real-life couple as the leads and another real-life couple, and I wanted to sort of get it out of my own story and challenged them to bring their own as much of themselves in their own relationship as they would be willing to the project. So, during the course of making it, it didn't necessarily feel like as much my story because I was encouraging other people to bring their own stuff. So yeah, I guess there's been moments of catharsis that have obviously bubbled up for me throughout but overall, it's not like bleeding on the page or that kind of thing. I was further along in the process, writing it. And gone through all of that stuff that you see in the film, but I was on the other side of it.
Sadie: I love that you say the intention behind it, because there are moments where Cooper's saying things with the intention of not like ‘I'm the victim,’ or ‘you're a victim,’ it’s more like, let’s help each other out. Whereas in a different movie, this would be so dramatic and over the top. This just feels more real.
Dillon: I love that you picked up on that because starting with the writing process, through my directing process, communicating with my actors, my keyword was unsentimental in terms of the approach and the tone of the film. This is a kind of film that easily could have slipped into that kind of film that you're talking about. And I actively was pushing against that. And I wanted to, as much as possible, this is so much of my own story that obviously I have, I'm coming from my own biased perspective and what that was, but I truly tried as much as possible to strip that down. And to present things from everybody else in my life and everything that was going on, and all these characters that kind of became composites of different things that were going on.
I just wanted to try to really create a story with no heroes and no villains and more true to life, which is more the case because so often we sense that can't be cinematic, because you have to have a clear-cut protagonist antagonist or something like that. And I was just going for an unsentimental sort of like bittersweet quality of just, ‘This is life,’ you know? I liked that you mentioned that because that's a tone that I was actively trying to cultivate starting from the writing.
Sadie: Now learning that the two leads are a real-life couple, what was that like working with them from a director's perspective, and making sure they stayed authentic to your story, but also as authentic for themselves?
Dillon: My story was already on the page and it was in the words and so I just really pushed them - with all my actors, not just Daniel and Hope, but I really pushed them to bring as much of themselves to the role as their personal selves as possible. Particularly with Daniel and Hope, they were in a real-life relationship, I was honest with them from the get-go about how I wanted to sort of hand this off to them and to sort of have them bring as much of their own relationship that they would feel comfortable, obviously, it's masked through the relationship that's on the page and the words that are written, but bring as much as they could. If there's a scene and they're fighting or bickering or something like that, it'd be like, ‘Well, how do you guys fight? What's your dynamic and your relationship when you bicker?’
And then obviously tried to communicate boundaries - whatever they were comfortable with, I didn't want to push them out of their comfort zone, but definitely wanted to kind of like, come right up to that line. Even with the production design, we brought stuff from their apartment into the apartment on set. But it was sort of that line that we would just communicate with of what do you need of yourself? And then what else do you need to make this not you to make you feel as the character? And we did that with costumes to Daniel’s wardrobe - I just hauled my closet over to his house – it’s a mixture of his stuff, my stuff, and I wanted him to use as much of his own vibe as possible.
And so, everything's sort of this composite of me as Dillon and what I put on the page in my life, but also, I wanted them to bring as much as they were comfortable with. I mixed in non-actors with the casting too. And I liked playing around with mixing it all in there so that it just created a very naturalistic feel. And you don't know where the acting is and where it starts, and where the characters start and just really, like allows them an intimacy that I was trying to create with the film.
Sadie: With the OCD meetings, was that mix of real and non-actors?
Dillon: It is. I had some real-life OCD patients that came in and helped. I'm in the group as well as an actor and I suffered from OCD. And so that was part of it too. And same thing with the rehab. There's a real-life drug and alcohol counselor, that's not really an actor. I wanted to just mix in that kind of stuff, to one, lend to exactly what I was speaking to, and to create a certain tone, but also they ended up being this incredible resource for all of my actors on set too, because obviously, you're hanging in between takes, and you're in those OCD groups, and you all of a sudden have this resource there for all of my actors who don't suffer from OCD that can sit there and sort of pick their brain and talk about their experience. And luckily, the people I brought on were very vulnerable, courageous, and willing to share so much of their experiences with my actors. And so, it just ended up helping the production in more ways than one.
Sadie: What an incredible asset to have on set, especially for your actors. Going back to their wardrobe, I just wanted to give a quick shirt shout-out to Scriptnotes and Philippe's, which I loved seeing that. [laughs]
Dillon: [laughs] Oh, yeah - LA right! And Scriptnotes. I mean, this is a Script Magazine, what they've done for probably every reader of this magazine…I've been following those guys for over a decade. It's like you have this like parasocial relationship with John and Craig. They have a special thanks in the credits of my movie, that’s just how important they are to my craft and my writing process. They have been so giving and they've given back so much to the writing community. And yeah, obviously that was just like a shirt out of my closet. One of the ones that made its way into the film. [laughs]
Sadie: You wear many creative hats as a filmmaker and musician – how did that all start for you and how do they two intersect for you?
Dillon: I've been doing both from a young age, pretty equally, I'd say, from early adolescence, forward, I've been doing both. But in terms of my process, they really inform each other. When I'm writing a screenplay, if I'm at a point where I'm stuck or something like that, I'll just kind of like swing my chair over and pick up the guitar and start writing a song or working on music. Just because it's a more visceral thing, but it still is kind of accessing the same part of my creative brain, but in a different way.
To make this full circle and tie this in - one of the things that you do when you're treating OCD is you engage in a pleasurable activity, that's something that actually creates you to be present, that kind of pulls you out of the compulsive cycle in your head. So, by that same token, when I'm sort of writing and I'm in my head about what I'm writing in a script, and I'm kind of stuck in that place where I'm puzzle piecing if I grab a guitar, it just makes me present because it's a physical action while I'm playing it. But then as I'm writing songs, it takes me out of what I was writing, but I still have those creative juices flowing. So, I find that it doesn't deplete me it's almost synergistic, where I'll put the guitar down, and I'll come back to whatever script I was writing. And it's forced me to take my brain out of what I was working on, I was totally thinking about something else. And then I come back fresh, but I've still been sort of like accessing that part of my brain, and it's still been worked out. So there's kind of a cohesion that exists there naturally, that I find. And even when I'm working with somebody, I'll just pick up the guitar and just be playing the guitar, even if I'm not actively writing a song. It still just sort of creates that same flow.
Sadie: With the songs, which you also wrote, in what part of the process did those get written and were they used to help the pacing/rhythm of your editing?
Dillon: So, all the songs were in there, and we used them on set during physical production, and that was in there from the script. I actually used the music, specifically that I was writing during the period of life that I was going through, just because there was some of that stuff that was like, ‘ Why am I going to write a song now, I have it from what it was then. Let's use that.’
I've edited short-form stuff, but this is the first feature that I've cut. And the correlation between music and editing - it's so similar in terms of the dynamics and the peaks and valleys and the rhythms and the pacing and the tone. It felt so like making music to me in the editing that it felt like a pretty seamless transition when I sat down and I started editing the film. And a lot of that's because so much of it was my brainchild that I've been living with for so long that from the script to the directing, I knew what I wanted with the performances that I kind of already had an idea. It was nice to just listen to my actors and I was just listening, particularly Daniel, it's obviously it's kind of a first-person narrative and he's in every scene of the movie, so I was sort of just like kind of watching takes and trying to tap into Daniels rhythm, his pacing and how he was doing it. And so, I kind of let him be my guiding light, I guess, so to speak. And I feel like music helps me so much in the editing room.
Sadie: With this being your feature directorial and editing debut, what was the biggest learning curve you had on this film?
Dillon: Gosh, the biggest learning curve, I mean, so much because this is my directorial debut. I've been through features and stuff for a long time, and I come from a drama background, I've been making features - I've just been writing and starring in my previous ones. So, I guess my main thing was all the directorial stuff really - how to communicate with your team and communicate your vision. I learned about that distillation process of how things just make sense in your brain. But even if you're the writer, or director, and you know that you're gonna end up being the one directing it, you still have to put it on the page as a writer - you still have to show everything. You can't have things be shorthand, just because you're like, ‘Oh, I'm writing the script, I'm going to direct it, so I can phone it in right here on this description.’ You still have to choose every word with tact. And you have to just really try to be as clear as possible, because the main job as a director is just managing everybody and give them your vision. So, I guess the biggest learning curve was the communication process and just learning how to communicate my vision as clearly as possible.
Pure O SXSW Screenings
- Mar 13, 2023 12:00pm—1:58pm
- Mar 15, 2023 2:15pm—4:13pm
- Mar 16, 2023 8:00pm—9:58pm
Sadie Dean is the Editor of Script Magazine and writes the screenwriting column, Take Two, for Writer’s Digest print magazine. She is also the co-host of the Reckless Creatives podcast. Sadie is a writer and filmmaker based in Los Angeles, and received her Master of Fine Arts in Screenwriting from The American Film Institute. She has been serving the screenwriting community for nearly a decade by providing resources, contests, consulting, events, and education for writers across the globe. Sadie is an accomplished writer herself, in which she has been optioned, written on spec, and has had her work produced. Additionally, she was a 2nd rounder in the Sundance Screenwriting Lab and has been nominated for The Humanitas Prize for a TV spec with her writing partner. Sadie has also served as a Script Supervisor on projects for WB, TBS and AwesomenessTV, as well as many independent productions. She has also produced music videos, short films and a feature documentary. Sadie is also a proud member of Women in Film.
Follow Sadie and her musings on Twitter @SadieKDean
