Why Celine Song’s ‘Past Lives’ is a Movie About Locations

Nora and Hae Sung, two deeply connected childhood friends, are wrest apart after Nora’s family emigrates from South Korea. Two decades later, they are reunited in New York for one fateful week as they confront notions of destiny, love, and the choices that make a life, in this heartrending modern romance.

The sheer subtle simplicity of two characters' lives from childhood to adulthood being pulled apart and brought back together in Celine Song's directorial debut Past Lives is serene. And the "fate" of these characters reconnecting, albeit on different life journeys, resonates on a calm frequency that crescendos in the last shot of the film. But it's the silence that you need to pay attention to - those are the moments that are the most transcendent. 

Screenwriter and director, Celine Song, recently spoke with Script about why this film is about locations, why her characters feel authentic, why the clown is the highest form of art, the importance of clarity in writing dialogue, and why there is no subtext in her dialogue, and so much more.

This interview has been edited for content and clarity.

Sadie Dean: Because this story is so personal, in what form did it initially come to you at first? Was it a play or a movie?

Celine Song: Well, I think that it really did come to me as a screenplay, because it is a story that spans decades and continents. So, it is so connected to locations. It's a movie about locations. And so, I think most of the time that most of the resources and time and everything and making the movie ended up, of course, going into locations, because it really is about the places that we live, and how that changes our fate determines our fate. And I think that really had so much to do with what the story is.

So, I think, first of all, it was that. And then secondly, the other thing is it also involves aging and involves time. And I felt that telling the time and space as literally as you can in film, you actually can’t in theater, because the theater time and space is not literal in a really specific and special way that is only very unique to theater. I thought that it should be a movie.

Sadie: There's such a beautiful line that is stated by Nora’s mom at the beginning of the film when Nora and Hae Sung are children. And I feel like it simply states what this film is about thematically, and this journey we're about to go on with these characters, “If you leave something behind, you gain something too.” Using that line somewhat as a foundation to develop your characters, I’m curious in how you landed on these individual characters, getting them to come back together and then drift apart?

Celine: Well, I think that the thing that I was wary of, is always to really think of characters as figures or a part of the plot or something like that. Because I think that what I really wanted to do was to fight for all of them - their personhood. I feel like that's how a movie like this could exist. It feels authentic, it feels connected to how we ourselves live our lives and how life works for us. And I think that a part of that is I was feeling so connected to these characters, and if I didn't feel connected to these characters, then I knew that more needed to be done in the writing if that makes sense.

So, I think that really is the pursuit of it - how do we actually show these three people live through their own time and space, the way that I've had to live my time and space, or people that I love and know have to, and even strangers had to live through time and space. And every time the question would be like, ‘What would it be like for them? What would it be like for Nora to see her childhood friend for the first time in 12 years?’ And so, I think it's really just trying to reconcile the fact that these are fictional characters, and then reconciling it to what I know is true about the human experience. I think that really is the pursuit.

Sadie: These characters feel like they're real people. And I really love your sensibility with dialogue, especially where these characters speak in a very literal, matter-of-fact way. Like Arthur says he’s the white husband, who is in the way or Hae Sung asking Nora if they would have gotten married or had children. There’s no need for subtext.

When dialing in the dialogue, what was that process like for you writing it from that first draft to then being on set with your cast, and seeing these words come to life? I mean, you have a background in being a playwright and seeing that happen a lot in your work, but it's definitely a different form, once they’re on camera and you get 30 takes.

Celine: [laughs] Totally. Well, when I was sort of talking about the dialogue of the thing, so much of it has to do with the clarity of emotions, or psychology, whatever it is. So, the word I feel like I am the most connected to in all of it is clarity. So, if you aren't really clear in that scene in the bar when they're silent in the street - after, we actually have clarity about what the silence is. And then we have stakes in that silence, because of what we have talked about.

So similar to like, yeah, when Arthur is saying, ‘I'm just the evil white American husband.’ And part of that is, if he is able to say that, then we are actually able to connect that as a part of the thing that we're going through together, and then the stakes are there, because we are able to do that. And I think people articulate like that even in life. But I think, not everybody is, but I think that a lot of people are, and that makes sense for two writers to be so articulate about that to each other in bed, for example. So, I think some of it just has to do with the character in the way that I believe that people communicate, or people can also aspire to communicate to because, of course, am I that articulate myself? No. But I think that a part of the aspiration, some movies are about aspirations, are about having a superpower. [laughs] Right? This one is about the aspiration of being able to communicate clearly and well. And to take care of each other well.

And I think a part of that aspirational thing is actually in the language of what they say, because they're going to always say what they mean. And that was something that I was working on with the actors. I was like, ‘Well, the thing is, it's like the subtext and then the mystery of the language is already built into the language itself. So, you actually don't need to find a subtext that isn't there. Focus on what is it that you're saying. And to remember that you're only going to say the things that you mean.’ I was like, ‘The rule of thumb of performing scenes from my script is that the characters say what they mean. They're not saying this person is lying.’ 

Which, in this movie, nobody lies in this movie. [laughs] So you may not speak, because you don't want to say anything. You don't want to say the truth. But you don't lie in the movie. So, I think in this case, I think that it was very much like everything you say, you're saying it because it's the truth.

The language can be a bit of a revelation. And then of course, once you have spoken, the truth of it, like after a long scene of a conversation, and then what can happen is that when we have silence or when we have mystery in silence, the audience is going to be so connected to that it's going to be clear, like what was the silence about, because also you can have a muddy silence. You can have a silence where we don't know why we are in silence, right? But what my goal for it was that we want the context of that silence to be crystal clear. 

So that when we're talking about the mystery of that silence, we already know why they're quiet. Right? So, I think that really was at the heart of what I'm looking for in writing the scenes and also in the performances.

Sadie: And that silence really hits you at the end, too. More than often, I think that filmmakers are afraid of using silence in their movies, and don't realize the superpower that is behind having those moments and letting the actors, if you trust your material, and your actors, it will do great things. And you definitely tapped into that so brilliantly in this film.

Celine: Thank you.

Sadie: This could be a silent film. Like with Hae Sung's character, his expressions are similar in context to a character played by Buster Keaton – the guy who's just in love and everything he's feeling is plain as day on his face. There’s no need for dialogue to express that.

Celine: Yeah, well, I think because I come from the theater I know that the clown is the highest form of art in theater. It really is. And it's so funny because people say like a 'Clown? How can you ever call me a clown?’ I'm like, ‘Well, in theater, actors that can clown are truly the best actors.’ All three of those actors are asked to perform this very high theatrical art form, which is like when we cut to Arthur in the bar, he is effectively being asked to be a clown. Right? In a theatrical way, he's being asked to do clowning, which is a theatrical art form. In a way when Hae Sung sees Nora for the first time in 24 years in Madison Square Park, he's also asked to clown in that moment, to perform clowning, because you have to read in their faces completely, every single thing that this character is feeling, and it's going to be complex and specific and has to be universal, that we're all going to recognize.

And that's what's amazing about when we cut to those faces, often there's a little laughter in the audience in a way that you hope happens in the finest clown work, right? Like when we cut to Madison Square Park, I have heard people laugh there, too, because they just recognize it as in like he is so happy to see her. And it's so simple, but it's so complex. And it's so deep.

But you can't do that if the actors are not able to achieve that. So, I think every time the things that I'm working on them with is, of course text, of course, dialogue, of course, everything but it's also their facial expressions has to be able to tell the story in such a fundamental way, and we can't move on from the scene until we found it.

Sadie: I'm curious about your process as the director, how many times were you just letting the camera roll to let them do their thing? Or was it more like, ‘OK, you get three takes and we move on’ because time is money?

Celine: [laughs] We shot on film, so I think that it's a little harder to just leave the camera running. And in the beginning of the rehearsal, I was like, 'I'm open to ad-lib.' And then I realized that I am not open to ad-lib. I'm like, ‘Do it word perfect. Every word must be exactly as I wrote.’ I just I realized that about myself. So now I will not say I'm open to ad lib, because it's a lie. [laughs] So I think it's partly that, but I think there will be times where I would just give them room intentionally.

So, for example, you know that scene, that shot of Arthur in the speakeasy where we just talked about as a moment of clowning where we cut to him while Hae Sung is just talking about ‘what ifs’ and then we cut to Arthur in that scene, and suddenly see a shot of him. What I did was I put a camera on his face. I put in a fresh mag of six minutes. And then I said to John [Magaro], ‘I'm going to use this entire roll of film on your face. And as you listen to these two talk…’ - and of course, Greta [Lee] and Teo [Yoo] are sitting there helping him out because he's been helping them out just by continuing to be on set – ‘…show me every single facial expression, every single way of listening to this conversation that you can think of.’ And he gave me about 10 in those six minutes.

And so, when I was in the edit, I could really go through every single color possible, and try to see which piece is going to be the right thing for that. And in that way he got to explore - there's so many versions of it, right? There's a portion of it where he looks so angry. There are portions of it, where he is really upset, really sad. There's versions of it, where he's like, totally cool. It's OK. [laughs] And you just have to find something that is just right.

What was just right, what I realized is one that is really thoughtful, but neutral, so that we can project right into it. Because what I realized is if it's too upset or angry, it looks like they're gonna start a fight. Right? But if he looks too cool about it, he looks like he doesn't care about her. So it has to be this thing where there’s an ambiguous space that actually this performance had to live, for example. But in that case, I gave John a chance to do all that. And of course, same thing with Teo and Greta, too. They all had moments where I was like, ‘Let's see different ways to do this.’ And then, of course, there are other moments where I'm like, ‘No, I know exactly how this is supposed to be.’

Sadie: Right. You had your fun. [laughs]

Celine: [laughs] Yeah, you had your fun. But I think there will be some moments where I'd be like, actually, this would be great for us to just see what are different ways to do it. So that I have options for that in the edit, because I don't know for sure.

Sadie: And speaking of that bar scene specifically, what is lost in translation, even though he's trying to learn their language. He's not going to understand everything. And I think what you picked for those cutaways to see his reactions were spot on, especially for the audience, because even though we get to read subtitles, it’s more about what is he hearing and how is he really taking this in.

Celine: Yeah.

Sadie: What inspired you to become a writer from being a playwright to now the multi-hyphenate filmmaker that you are?

Celine: I think that at the end of the day, you do it because it's the only thing that makes you happy. [laughs] What inspired me is that I was doing it since I was a kid. And I was always doing it. And it was the main thing that I wanted to be doing at any given moment, even when I wasn't sure if I was going to be a writer. Because I was thinking maybe I could be a therapist. So, I studied psychology in undergrad. But I found myself putting more time into my philosophy papers than I studied psychology. [laughs] 

It’s just one of those things…it wasn't something where I was like, ‘Wow, that really inspired me!’ or ‘This really got me to do it.’ I think when it comes to being a writer, it was something that I was always doing, even when I was a super young. So, I think it's kind of you start to do it and then I think a part of it is accepting that that's who you are.

Sadie: Yeah, exactly. It’s like you’re doing therapy through your characters. And having that background, I feel like you get to tap even deeper into that psychosis of what your characters are going through. That's pretty cool.

Celine: Yeah, it's pretty cool. 

Past Lives will be released in Theaters nationwide on June 23, 2023.