Adapting ‘The Other Black Girl’ from Novel to Television with Co-Showrunners Jordan Reddout and Gus Hickey

Nella, an editorial assistant, is tired of being the only Black girl at her company, so she's excited when Hazel is hired. But as Hazel's start begins to rise, Nella spirals out and discovers something sinister is going on at the company.

Art imitates life. Life imitates art. The Other Black Girl is all of that and then some. It delivers on the comedy, it delivers on character development, it delivers on the realities of working in a corporate hellscape, and it asks the audience to think and ask questions like, "How much are you willing to give up of yourself?" 

Co-showrunners Jordan Reddout and Gus Hickey, recently spoke with Script about adapting author Zakiya Dalila Harris' book (of the same name), developing character arcs in the first season, what questions they asked themselves that guided them to their theme, being co-showrunners, and so much more!

This interview has been edited for content and clarity.

Sadie Dean: How did you two get tapped to showrun the series?

Gus Hickey: Jordan had read the book, years before the television show ever existed. And we had told our reps to follow the book, because we knew it was going to be made into a television show. But you never know how long those things are going to take. [laughs] And so we were like, ‘We would love to be on this, please, please, please. This is the one.’ 

And luckily, when it came around, we met with Rashida Jones and Zakiya Harris. And we had an absolutely amazing meeting, we talked about all of the shows that we had been watching and that we thought this show could emulate and we had all the same tonal comparisons, we had very similar ideas for changes from the book, and things to keep from the book. And I think we even talked about the ending of the series over the season. It was incredibly collaborative, which ended up being very true of the process as well with Rashida and Zakiya.

Sadie: In terms of adapting the book, and the fact that you had Zakiya in in the room and working with you, I’m sure you had to take some creative liberties to make it into the show that it is, what was the process of breaking the story, breaking the first season, and digging deeper into these characters and their backstories?

Jordan Reddout: We know that a novel and a television show are very different media. And so, out of necessity, knew that we had to change, specifically in the novel, how interior Nella’s struggle is - she spends a lot of time considering what action to take. And you just don't really have time for that in a TV show. So, she had to become a lot more active immediately. And Zakiya and Rashida very smartly, wrote that into the pilot, where she speaks up about the book and talks to Colin by the end of the episode, and then, of course, Hazel throws her under the bus by the end of the episode. And that's a lot faster than the way that it goes down in the book.

And because of that, Nella's entire character sort of had to morph because in the book, I think she's a lot more measured and thoughtful and even kind of timid - she really doesn't want to put a toe out of line. And in our version, because she was someone who had made a decision very quickly, she became a more active version of herself. And that of course, then led to her entire arc for the season kind of changing and led to the twist at the end. She's a different character in a lot of ways. And it was very cool to have Zakiya in the room with us talking about the ways that we could change Nella and helping us to execute those changes.

Sadie: What I really enjoyed about this show was how you built out misdirection’s and really keeping the tension high --

Gus: Many things that don't play out. [lauhgs]

Jordan: There are many, many red herrings. [laughs]

Sadie: Well it works! And crossing fingers for the second season so we can see those pay off. How did you approach planting those beats in the first season? And also, what was you North Star while navigating the first season?

Gus: I think, obviously, the show has a lot of conversations and wants to start a lot of conversations and doesn't have the answers, but wants people to come up with their own answers. And I think, for us, the television show, specifically, separate from the book, I think the question that we wanted to ask with the TV show was, how much of yourself are you willing to sacrifice in order to succeed? And I think that that's a question that every person has to ask themselves, and that every person answers very differently. And I think you see, not just Hazel and Nella in the show, but you see Diana, you see, Vera, you see Malaika, you see all of these people have different answers for how much of their authentic self they're willing to give up in order to succeed in capitalism.

There's a conversation in the bathroom in episode 105, between Malaika and Nella in which those two characters have a disagreement, essentially about how much both of them are willing to sacrifice to succeed. And yet, they find that when they're alone, the two of them together, they don't have to give up any of themselves. They don't have to pretend to be anything different than who they are. And Nella is going to make certain choices and Malaika is going to make certain choices when they're apart. But when they're together, that's their safe space.

And I think that that was sort of the thing that we wanted to keep, if every episode has a different take on that question and if you come to the end of the season, and you still don't really know the answer. Like when Hazel offers her the grease, you don't really know if she's going to take it or not, because hopefully we’ve given you episode nine and we've given you episode eight, we've seen Diana's backstory, and you see that everybody comes to this moment with different baggage and different perspectives on the world. And so, some decisions are not necessarily as wrong or bad as they might seem on the surface.

Jordan: Yeah. It's incredibly complicated for each character, like it’s incredibly complicated for each of us trying to exist in capitalistic corporate America. [laughs] I think Gus hit the nail on the head. I think that was definitely a huge guiding light for us thematically.

The book came out at a time where it was on the precipice of this racial reckoning in America, and specifically a corporate racial reckoning. And I think, the Nella of 2023, who was 26, I believe is Gen Z, versus the Nella of 2020 or 2019, who was a millennial, and that difference is large, and so we had to adjust. I think that the book has this theme of being Black in a white space. And we also use that and definitely speak to that, but I think that we had to, because the cultural conversation surrounding being Black in a white space had changed so significantly from when she wrote the book, we had to adapt and say, ‘OK, what is it really about for us? And what is it really about for characters in 2023?’ And so, you know, Gus already spoke to what we landed on, but it was really interesting to have to shift so fully in such a short amount of time.

Sadie: Yeah, that's incredible, and you framing it that way, that generation gap is pretty big.

Jordan: It's big!

Sadie: I have to rewatch the show again from that lens.

Jordan: You know, it’s interesting, because I think the show has really resonated with millennials and older people. And I think it's because Nella is stomaching things in this show that we would definitely stomach. But I don't know that Gen Z really would. Like Gen Z, they're so good about putting up boundaries and protecting themselves and saying, ‘I'm not going to tolerate this,’ in a way that all past generations, just took it, ‘Oh, I guess I'm not going to get out in time to go to my own birthday dinner tonight.’ [laughs] You know, like I've been there. And I think that feels ridiculous to someone. It should feel ridiculous to all of us [laughs] it should feel ridiculous to someone entering corporate America right now. So, we really had to keep that in mind for the characters and for the way that we told the story. And I think that also contributed to Nella being more vocal and more active.

Sadie: She's a very active character. When building out your writers’ room, what kind of voices did you find necessary to build out this world?

Gus: I was the only man in the room, I was one of only two white people in the room - which is a very rare thing in television comedy. And so that was very refreshing and very necessary, I think, for this book that is so specific to an experience that we wanted everyone to identify with. But we also wanted it to be as authentic as possible. And to come from a place of experience and to mine the experiences of the writers’ room to help add layers and more vibrancy to what was already there.

We really wanted to maintain the tone of the book. We loved the sense of humor of the book. I think, for me and Jordan, it's very near to our hearts, to have a sense of humor, despite terrible, terrible things happening to you. [laughs] That was really strong with Nella, that's very, very much who Nella is and how she survives. And I think, for me and Jordan, for a Black woman and a gay man, I think that you just got to have a sense of humor, or you will cry every single day because the world sucks. And here is Nella in this even more heightened situation. And she's still able to be herself and hold on to that. And so, I think that was incredibly important to us and incredibly important in the writers that we hired.

Sadie: You’re basically two captains steering this ship. How did you divide and conquer and keep everything cohesive as co-showrunners?

Gus: We barely survived every day. [laughs] It's just whoever is available. Whoever has any energy left. [laughs] It is such a crazy job being a showrunner. Thank God, we have each other. I highly recommend anyone who wants to be a showrunner in television, have a writing partner because it's not a job for one person. It just really isn’t. I think a lot of the asks and a lot of the victories in the Writers Guild strike were about certain things like this and about this sort of over-reliance on showrunners and the over burdening of them and not allowing them to have a staff through production and not allowing them to have a certain size of a writers' room. And I think that…I'm not really answering your question, but I just wanted to say that thank God, we have the Writers Guild, and I think we really won some things that are hopefully going to make a big difference...

Jordan: I got you, buddy. I got you. This is how we work. [laughs] You just gotta jump in. Thank God, we have our staff, and we leaned on them heavily. Kara Brown, in particular, who wrote three episodes, was a savior for us in terms of going to set and covering production for many, many weeks. Gus and I have known each other since college, we've known each other since we were like, 18 or 19. And so, we do have this foundation of a friendship and a trust. And so, at this point, as far as writing and as far as a unified vision and voice that is very second nature to us, because I know the way Gus's brain works, and Gus knows the way that my brain works. And we do have very few disagreements, because we just have spent the last however many years, 15 years, I don't know how old we are - getting very in sync with each other.

And so, I think it is so necessary to have more people to cover set and to handle all of these things. But it is especially important to have somebody that you trust, and who understands what the vision of the show is, and who understands the tone and what you're really trying to say, because you're just like trying to survive, [laughs] when you're on set, especially when you've got scripts to write, set to produce and post is starting. I don't know how people survive. I don't know how people live and see their families or their pets…it doesn't seem possible. It was barely possible for us. I mean, it wasn't even really possible for us. And we had a full extra body doing the work, but it's very, very hard. And so, I'm really glad that we could just divvy it up - it really was like, ‘Are you free? Great. You're doing it.’ [laughs]

Sadie: And that's how it works. [laughs]

Gus: That's the magic of Hollywood. [laughs]

Sadie: I know that you two met at Harvard. When was that “aha” moment you knew that you should be writing partners?

Gus: We both did a ton of musical theater in college. And that was how we met. And that was sort of our first love and how we learned to talk to each other, [laughs] I think. And then, when we graduated, we both moved out here. Jordan went to grad school, and I was an assistant at United Talent Agency. And we were hanging out and seeing theater and doing what we could, and we saw Liza Minnelli in concert at the Hollywood Bowl. And we were so in awe of this woman who is a consummate performer. Doesn't matter if she remembers the words. Doesn't matter if she can hit the notes. You are there for her. You're there for Liza. You don't even know what song she's singing. Truly, it's just noise and it's amazing. 

And so, we ended up thinking that this was an amazing idea for a television show - a Broadway diva sort of clawing her way back into the spotlight. And we wrote a pilot together because we were imitating Liza's voice day in and day out and we were like, ‘Oh, this is very funny.’ [laughs] ‘We should write this down and stop saying it out loud because it's embarrassing.’ And so, we wrote a pilot and that ended up getting us on The Muppets. And that was our first job where someone paid us to write. And the rest is history.

Jordan: Yeah, the Muppets are big musical theater nerds too, so it was a match made in heaven. I think also, there's one - I've never told this story before [laughs] in an interview so we'll see how it goes. But there was one moment in college, where I feel like it was the moment where I realized that we had the same sense of humor - it was my senior year, Gus' junior year --

Gus: Was it when I tortured Elliott? [laughs]

Jordan: Yes! Good, I'm so glad you know the story I'm going to tell! We were doing Into the Woods. And Gus was Prince Charming. And I was directing it and the Prince's sing this song called “Agony” and the other Prince, played by our dear friend Elliot Rosenbaum is supposed to be afraid of dwarves and Gus, and I thought it would be - this is so dumb, I don't know why I'm telling this story [laughs] - Gus and I thought that it would be funny for him to whip out a little, like one of the Seven Dwarves, like a little figurine and scare --

Gus: It was like a little Troll doll. [laughs]

Jordan: Oh, it was a little Troll doll! [laughs] First of all, I have to reiterate that this is live theater. No one can see --

Gus: This tiny thing [laughs]

Jordan: No one could see it, [laughs] and so it never got a laugh, except from me and Gus. [laughs] Gus and I thought it was the funniest thing that he would torture his brother with this tiny figurine. And I think it would be funny on camera. [laughs]

Gus: This is how we knew we were meant for the screen, not for theater [laughs] because we couldn't make it play.

Jordan: No one ever laughed at that, except for us. But we thought it was funny enough that we forced it to happen every night. So [laughs] that was the moment for me.

Sadie: The little Troll, I love it. That's a great story.

Jordan: Great story, thank you. [laughs]

Sadie: Any words of wisdom/advice for writing partners?

Jordan: I think one of the important things for us, was just realizing what was important to us. And I mean that creatively for sure, realizing the stories that we wanted to tell and getting aligned with that. But I also think there are very tough moments in this industry, that can really bring you down or try to pull you apart and break you. And there were toxic people that we worked with who were literally trying to get us to break up. 

And we had these moments where we sat down, and we held each other's hands and made eye contact, and said, ‘What matters to me is you, is this relationship, and maintaining this friendship that we've had for 50 million years.’ And that was very important and powerful for us to say it out loud, and to affirm that in each other because I think otherwise, we could have broken up or we could have not known how important we are to each other. And so, I think if you're starting a partnership, you have to have trust and confidence in that person. And you have to know that they matter to you, and you matter to them. I think that emotional connection is so important. It’s what's going to keep you going and keep you alive and help you make it all the way to being a showrunning duo.

Gus: Yeah, and I totally agree. And I think different side of the same coin, you should surround yourself with people that you believe in and that trust you and that you trust because there are a lot of decisions that you're going to have to make. And this is much less romantic and much less emotional and much less exciting, but it is a business. And there are a lot of business decisions that you're going to have to make. And you're going to have to have people around you who can advise you on those decisions. But you're also going to have to have people around you that you can say no to. And you don't have to necessarily do everything, because somebody tells you it's a good idea. You need to believe in it, and you need to want to do it. And you need to think that it is something that is worth your time. So definitely don't do things just because somebody tells you to do them.

The Other Black Girl is now streaming on Hulu.