A Story About Humanity: A Conversation with ‘James Brown: Say It Loud’ Documentary Filmmaker Deborah Riley Draper

“James Brown: Say it Loud” traces the incredible trajectory of Brown’s life and career from a 7th grade drop-out arrested and jailed at the age of 16 for breaking into a car in the Jim Crow-era South, to an entertainment legend whose groundbreaking talent and unique perspective catapulted him to become a cultural force. His words, songs, style and moves inspired musical revolutions and molded a nation’s view of Black Pride and Black masculinity. Consistently facing obstacles and unbelievable odds, the documentary details how Brown persevered through decades of personal demons, racial injustice, and career setbacks to find redemption and become one of, if not the, most celebrated and influential artists of the 20th century. Featuring never-before-seen archival interviews and performances of James Brown, plus interviews with friends, family, musicians and proteges including Mick Jagger, Questlove, Bootsy Collins, LL Cool J, The Rev. Al Sharpton, Chuck D, Dallas Austin, Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis, his children Deanna, Yamma and Larry Brown, and many more, “James Brown: Say It Loud” is a definitive look at a complicated life and a reflection on the immense impact Brown continues to have on music and culture today.

How do you sum up a person - who they are and were - especially when they were larger than life figure? A trailblazer. A movement. A pioneer. A father. A husband. Well, documentarian Deborah Riley Draper knows how and did exactly that in her latest four-part docuseries James Brown: Say it Loud, which recently premiered on A&E. 

With so many moving pieces from historically significant moments that shaped America from politics to music, and interweaving poignant interviews with those who knew James Brown, Deborah uses her keen sensibilities as a seasoned storyteller to find humanity, and vulnerability all through a universal theme.

Deborah Riley Draper recently spoke with Script about how she initially became attached to the docuseries project, what the catalyst was for her, what inspired her to become a documentarian, and what stories she’ll be telling next alongside her production company Coffee Bluff Pictures.

This interview has been edited for content and clarity.

Sadie Dean: How did you initially get involved with this project?

Deborah Riley Draper: So, the project is executive produced by Questlove and Mick Jagger. So those two gentlemen were already in as EPs when my agent called and said, 'Hey, they're looking for a Director, is this something you'd be interested in?' And I was like, 'Yeah, of course. Absolutely. I want to throw my hat in the ring.' And I immediately, in that moment, began thinking about what it is I would want to say about James Brown, and what was critically important that needed to be covered. And I did some initial research, and I'm so fortunate, I can look back at my original treatment that I submitted to the network, and it's like, 90%, of what was in that treatment. I'm so thrilled by that.

But the catalyst for my thesis was the cover of Look magazine in 1969. And they posed the question, 'Is James Brown the most important Black man in America?' And I thought, 'Huh, that's quite a provocative question on the cover of a general interest magazine in 1969.' I was like, ‘This is something to unpack…Was he? Is he? Was that even in the realm of possibilities at that moment?' And that's what I wanted to understand.

I wanted to understand the origin story of a Black man from the South with a seventh-grade education, and how his trajectory could take him to the place of that cover, then how his trajectory could take him to the place where he would be incarcerated as an adult. And then how it looks, after 73 years of being this Black man from the south, with a seventh-grade education with global stardom, and cultural significance would be when he died on Christmas Day.

So that's how I began to think about it. What did the origin story look like? What was the trajectory? How was he able to sustain himself over decades? And where was he in the moment he passed away in 2006? And where is he now in our culture, and what those contributions are, but really looking at it from the lens of Blackness, because that drove him. And as someone who was also born and raised in Georgia, I understood what he meant to my father and my uncles, and my mom and my aunts, and in how he carried himself, liberated them, and provided them with words, that they may not have been able to say themselves, but words that they understood and words that made them feel free.

Sadie: Absolutely. And the amount of information that you were able to distill down to four episodes. I’m sure that was challenging.

Deborah: It was challenging. It's a big life. It's a huge life. And you have to make choices about what you want to include and what you're going to edit out. And I had an amazing editor that came on to the project, Mari Keiko Gonzalez. We were able to have these very real conversations about story and very real conversations about the things that were critically important to me. And that was looking at his whole life, right? And not reducing him.

As a writer, I want to make sure that you feel the origin story. You feel the inciting incident, you feel this hero's journey that he went on. And man, did James Brown go on a journey. [laughs] I mean, he lived a life, right?

Sadie: Yeah. He lived many lives.

Deborah: He lived many, many lives and you need to feel the rise and the fall, you needed to feel that resilience, you needed to see that work ethic, but you needed to also see the fall, you need to see the flaws, because he's human. And he's a story about humanity. This is a man that was born dead, and then lived and lived and lived and lived. So, I wanted you to feel that energy.

And I also wanted you to feel through him, which is why there was a creative choice to use a lot of his voice. In my first string out, the very first words of episode one are still the very first words from the very first string out, when I was doing the paper edit, I chose that particular bite, because I felt it sums him up, that he was universal and global. But he knew and understood that it was all of the rawness of his Blackness that propelled him forward. And that he would not forsake that in his journey, because the trauma of it, but also the triumph of it was so much a part of the DNA and the engine of James Brown. So that's why we open that way. And that's why we close the way we close so that you can get the fullness of a life. He's not one you can examine in part. [laughs] You have to look at the whole thing.

Sadie: I'm curious for you, and even your co-writer and editor Mari, you're interweaving so much with his story, because he is this larger-than-life figure in America, and this trailblazer, but you're also covering politics, the Black experience, music history - all these layers – what was that process behind making those decisions to guide these episodes, and the selection of interviews you are using to hit those points and topics?

Deborah: Well, one of the things, I sat down with every single person that you see who speaks in this docuseries, and I had very specific questions about all those buckets, right? I wanted to understand him as a cultural figure, I wanted to understand him as a father, as a husband, as a bandleader. As someone who, after Dr. King is assassinated, assumes this role of being this civil rights leader, and being able to literally transform the psyche and the self-esteem of the nation's Black community, in the singular use of a pen. And those words, ‘say it loud’ become so powerful.

So, understanding America is understanding James Brown, because his words and his choices are a reflection of where America is in its relationship to Black people, and Blackness. And the Black community's relationship to politics, culture, and music. He's such an incredible example, to be able to paint what's happening during the depression and to be able to use buck dancing and illustrated so that people understand what buck dancing is, and how that is the direct line from being enslaved. But how James Brown was able to use this, and really incorporate it into a show like none other. And he really catapults himself through the Chitlin’ Circuit to the global stage.

And to look at, 'Say it loud, I'm Black, and I'm proud' and understand that yes, it was a song, but the viral nature of vinyl in that moment, meant that those words could permeate households across the country. So for my family, for my mom, for my dad, and for my uncles, when they heard this song, they come from a family and from a community that had self-silenced. It had been 400 years of being silent, as protection, silence as resistance and silence because in so many ways, there have been Black codes and laws and legislation that said, 'Be quiet. We don't want to hear from you.' So then to hear “Say It Loud,” and know that meant that your voice meant something and that you could articulate the it that you needed to articulate and that you can be heard and be seen at the same time, it was powerful and transformative and revolutionary.

So, you needed to understand the context of the nation to understand the power of the song. That's why there's a weaving back and forth between what's happening in music, whether it's hip hop, or when disco came, because you need to understand what was happening in the macro to understand what was happening in the micro.

Sadie: I keep thinking of his concert right after Dr. King’s assassination, and how James Brown at that moment was so powerful, that he literally stopped a riot.

Deborah: At the Boston Gardens! He saved Boston. And you can see, you can feel those kids, you could feel that energy in that footage, like this could jump off any minute…because that's what was happening. Because people didn't know how to process this assassination. They didn't know what it meant for the movement. They didn't know what it meant for their communities. They didn't know what it meant for themselves. So, you have this grief, and this rage, all boiling together. And James Brown is able, in his power in that moment, to provide something that could seep into people's souls and restore them. Yeah, it was powerful.

To take that rage and ‘say it loud’ was also so you can be outraged, right? It's about, ‘Yes, you can speak. And yes, you can say what you're experiencing and what you're feeling.’ And that's something that we can all learn from - men, women, children of all races, face all types of oppression and microaggression. And people that want to destabilize them or dehumanize them for a lot of different reasons. But “Say It Loud” is this thing, this edict that you can hold on to and say, ‘I'm going to own my voice. I'm going to have agency. And I'm going to center myself and explain to you what I'm feeling whether you want to hear it or not. Because it is healthier for me to say it than to hold on to it for another whole generation.’

That's how I looked at the history. And that's how I looked at the man because he's built in Augusta, Georgia. He's abandoned, he's impoverished in the depression. He's thrown in a juvenile reform school for boys. And we know enough about the history of how facilities were run in the 40s and especially how young Black boys were treated in those facilities in the 40s. So, these are the things that built the man. It's critical to understand those things, the music, the Gospel - all of these factors are feeding into this young Black boy's head. And then it explodes with “Please, Please, Please.”

Sadie: It's just so remarkable. As a documentarian telling this story, did you feel any kind of pressure from the outside world from those who did know him, knew his story, knew his highs and lows and just making sure you're presenting the best story you can?

Deborah: Well, I actually didn't feel the pressure from the outside. I felt a lot of pressure from the inside - from me. [laughs] Ensuring that the history of this person and the lived experience of this person was put in the right light and fully lit. So that you see the cracks and the crevices, and you see the whole. So that's what I wanted to make sure that we understood that he was a man and that he was a man with flaws. But as we all are, the flaws are part of our humanity. They are part of everything that we are, and we can't separate our flaws from our triumphs. They're all part of the same DNA.

So, being able to look at it, but look at it with empathy, because I think as a storyteller, for me, it's important to not judge or not criticize. And that's why I wanted so much of that archival, so Mr. Brown can explain, and tell, and share, and you can see what his POV was for those seven decades that he was on this planet. And that way, we can get as close as we can to hearing from him. And that the canvas that this story is being painted on, is being assisted by Mr. Brown.

Sadie: What inspired you to become a filmmaker, and finding your way into documentary filmmaking?

Deborah: Well, I spent my career in advertising before filmmaking. I was an account person at BBDO, and Ogilvy and Mather. So, my job was to work with big blue chip brands, finding a way to tell the brand story in a way that resonated in a relevant way, and in an emotional way. So, people can connect in the most authentic way with that brand.

And one day, I was driving to work, and I heard a story on the radio about a research study that said Black women were the ugliest women in the world. This researcher had traveled the entire globe and measured noses and eyes, and all these things. And that is what he came up with. And so, when I pulled into the parking deck at my job, I'm like, steaming. And for the rest of the day, my day is ruined.

And the next day, I'm in the car, and I have the radio off because I'm like, 'I just can't.' And then I decided to turn it on. And I hear the end of a story where Barbara Summers says, 'It was the most glorious day when women who were potentially the heirs of the enslaved tore the roof off the chateau. It was the most important fashion show ever.' And that was all I heard. And I was like, 'What is that?!' And that was the story of the Grand Divertissement on November 28, 1973, when five American designers took on five French designers at the Chateau de Versailles, and what was the most important fashion competition in American fashion history. And I was like, 'Now, that's the story.' And what the secret weapon was for the American designers were these Black models that they brought to Paris, these beautiful Black women. 

And so, I was like, 'Aha, take that! I'm going to make this story!' [laughs] And I called Oscar de la Renta's office, I called Stephen Burrows office, and I called Paris and called those designers. And that became my first documentary, which is called Versailles '73: American Runway Revolution. And I was able to screen that at the Marché du Film at Cannes. And ultimately, it aired, it was purchased by Viacom for Logo, and it aired right after RuPaul's Drag Race, and RuPaul did promos for it. [laughs]

So, for a first-time filmmaker I was like beyond [laughs] that is literally how I walked into the documentary. I was outraged. And I wanted to be able to center Black women, and the Black experience and narratives showing the full experience sometimes triumphant but sometimes not, but not these isolated moments through the lens of someone else. We've had to expand the aperture of who was telling stories, and certainly who was telling stories about us and people like me. So that's how I came in.

The next story was the Olympic Pride, American Prejudice, which was the story about the 18 black athletes who challenged Hitler and Jim Crow in 1936. But the popular narrative centered only on Jesse Owens, but there were 18 other Black athletes on that boat to Nazi Germany including two Black women. So that became my second story. And I was so thrilled by that. I got a book deal with Simon & Schuster out of it, and an agent, and things started popping up from there. [laughs]

Sadie: That is so amazing! Obviously, two thumbs down to that so-called researcher, but also, big thanks to them for inspiring you or maybe getting you angry enough to tell these stories.

Deborah: It's the outrage, right? “Say It Loud.” It's being able to recognize that there is space that I could share with this gentleman who was a researcher. And as a child, I loved research. My mom, when she was in graduate school, always took me to the library with her, I felt like we were always fooling around with some microfiche machine that didn't work. [laughs] She'd be like, 'Hold these index cards.' I was the little helper, I'm an only child. So, I'm very comfortable in Special Collections and museums, I'm very comfortable in archives, I'm very comfortable talking to people, and making them feel comfortable.

And I think one of the superpowers that I was able to bring to this particular story was being able to sit down with Yamma, Deanna, and Larry, and create a safe space that we can talk openly and honestly, about Mr. James Brown, as a father, as a husband, as a person, because those are tough questions that I asked. But establishing that relationship, to be able to ensure that the answers and these guys were very candid, but that they were in an environment that was stripped back, wasn't a whole lot of people looking at them, it was just me and them having a conversation. They were getting some tough questions, and they were answering them honestly. And that's what I wanted people to feel that this was honest. And this was authentic. And it was an exploration of a human being from birth to death.

Sadie: Another moment I keep thinking of from the series is when his daughter asks him if she can dance on stage with him at his show, and when he tells her no, but the next night he does bring her out – and in that interview, that vulnerability, you immediately connect to and that urge for a father-daughter relationship.

Deborah: Right. And that was Deanna, his older daughter. Look at her face when she remembers that. That's all of us, when we remember these special moments with people we love that we've lost or people that meant so much to us, and in those moments in her vulnerability, is incredibly human. 

And that's, for me, that's what I wanted you to experience - me to experience as a viewer myself - that we're talking about human lives and we're talking about universal truths that happened in this family who was very visible but can happen in any American family in a lot of ways. Whether that person's a singer, or whether they're the best gardener or the best auto mechanic or the best accountant, or the worst, you know, [laughs] that these relationships are hard. And trying to achieve the American dream is hard for anyone. And it takes its toll on the person who's trying and striving and also on the people around you.

Sadie: Are there any stories or anything of historical significance for you that you're eager to shine a light on through your lens and with your production company Coffee Bluff Pictures?

Deborah: We have a couple of things we're developing in our pipeline. One is Flipped, which is the story of the first HBCU gymnastics team at Fisk University. And when you think of, ‘Oh, it's the first, it must have been a long time ago.’ No, it was 2023. [laughs]

Sadie: Wow!

Deborah: [laughs] The first time an HBCU in the United States of America competed with the gymnastics team. And in looking at the historical bias of a Black woman in the sport, you know, because the bodies sometimes are different, the hair can be natural, it could have dreadlocks. So, all of these things are historically things that get point deductions in gymnastics, because the focus is so Eurocentric in the look and the music. So that's a story we're currently developing.

And then Coffee Bluff is the river that runs behind my grandmother's house. And it was also my great-grandmother's house. So, the story of the people who used the Coffee Bluff River to become free is a story I'm developing as well. So, here's the crazy thing - Button Gwinnett who signed the Declaration of Independence, was a terrible businessman. And one of the things that he decided, 'I'm going to join and do what all the other guys were doing. I'm gonna buy a plantation.' He did not have enough money to buy a plantation. So, he leveraged the collateral of the humans enslaved on the plantation that he bought. And those humans enslaved were my ancestors. So, I'm very intrigued by this dynamic, and by the idea of how plantations should be used in the current environment what they should be accountable for, and what narratives they should be telling.

Sadie: 100% Wow, that's incredible. That's going to be an incredible story.

Deborah: So that's why my company is called Coffee Bluff, because it's an honor that I'm bestowing on my company, based on the sacrifices that my family made. The land they bought, when they were free, is still on Coffee Bluff Road, it’s still in my family, and that's been since 1870. So that's why my company's called Coffee Bluff Pictures. So, every choice or every decision that I make, through Coffee Bluff Pictures, I want to honor the sacrifices they made for me to be able to talk to you, to be able to make anything, period, right? It wouldn't exist.

I'm interested in these kinds of American stories, because they're all the same thing, whether it's the Black models in Paris, or the Black athletes in Germany, these are universal stories about people who are trying to achieve the American dream. And they just have a lot of challenges and obstacles, but they have so much grit and so much heart that they're going to push through. And I just want to be able to have that much grit and heart, if I'm being honest with you. [laughs] If I can have half as much, I'll be happy. But that's the nature of why my company's called Coffee Bluff. And it also will always be part of the DNA of the stories I tell whether it's Say It Loud, or Versailles ‘73, or Olympic Pride or Flipped. It's really important. 

James Brown: Say it Loud is now streaming on A&E.