Advocates for Artists: A Conversation with A3 Artists Agency Motion Picture Literary Division Co-Heads, Adam Kanter, Valarie Phillips and Andy Patman

As every creative embarks on their professional journey, there are a few rules of thumb to heed when entering the business, from being financially responsible to how you present yourself and above all else, who represents you. And for many screenwriters, directors, and actors, being hip-pocketed or signed by a reputable agency could be your golden ticket. But it goes without saying, that it takes time, there's a lot of upfront work and work in between, and it doesn't happen overnight. That bear's repeating, it doesn't happen overnight.

For those with a foot in the door or on the path to getting their foot in the door, it's just as important to know who the industry players are, if not just as important as to who is making your favorite films and television shows. So when the opportunity to speak with the co-heads of the Motion Picture Literary Division at A3 Artists Agency, frankly, it was a no-brainer that their insight and inner workings and dealings within the industry would be invaluable for the Script creative community. Between these three industry vets, Andy Patman, Valarie Phillips, and Adam Kanter, respectfully, they represent some of the biggest and brightest creative voices in the industry. It goes without saying, there's a reason why they have maintained the caliber of creatives on their rosters - these are agents you want on your team.

This interview has been edited for content and clarity and was conducted in October 2023, post-WGA strike.

Sadie Dean: Adam, can you please give a brief overview of what A3 Artists Agency is and how it started?

Adam Kanter: A3 Artists Agency is a full-service literary and talent agency. So, we can represent clients across the board in all areas; scripted, unscripted, talent, books, publishing, media rights, voiceover, digital, all areas - so we can really service our clients. And frankly, if there's an area that we don't cover, we have relationships and access in all the other areas.

A3 is the rebranded version of what was formerly Abrams Artists Agency, which was a 40-plus-year literary and talent agency that was purchased by a gentleman by the name of Adam Bold in 2018. And as he had the will to want to acquire an A-list literary group, we sort of all got to know each other, and, along the way, talked about the idea of rebranding Abrams to A3, that eventually led to the rebranding in 2020, right before the pandemic. And then when the pandemic hit, it gave us all the opportunity to kind of come together and join the agency. And so, we've been at this agency for a little over three years, and our first year, we had to deal with the pandemic, and for the last five or so months, we've been dealing with strikes. So, we really haven't had the opportunity to really put wind in our sails, although the last couple of years have been very good for us.

Sadie: It's a lot of a lot to deal with in your first few years. So, kudos to you guys for just pushing forward. Now that the Writers Strike is over, we have new terms, and there’s a new path forward. How are you helping your new and current roster of clients navigate this new path?

Valarie Phillips: I think it's a complicated path, because we're seeing the studios cutting back on their development, cutting back on their production. And I think as agents, representing creatives, we walk a very fine line. And that fine line is, if you're writing spec material, then write spec material that is very targeted and focused to what the studios want to make. But also, as creatives, you kind of want to tell your clients, write what their passion is, write where their heart is. But I think what goes hand in hand with that is whatever you're writing, we give a very kind of clear path of what those paths can be for that material. If you're writing commercial, if you're writing independent and artsy, I mean, they're going to be two different paths. And we just want our clients to be aware of it, as we start to expose the material.

I think also we're finding that we need to do, I mean, I don't know that we appreciate the word packaging, right, we can use something else, but we try and put as many elements together as possible before we find a home for the material with the studios. So, whether that is, if it's a young writer and putting a more senior established writer on to Godfather, it's bringing a director on, if it's bringing a producer on for one script, it's going to champion it around town and help to figure out what those pieces are needed. It's trying to put, as Adam said, more wind in the sail in terms of success with spec material. And then there's the assignment world, which is harder than ever, there's fewer assignments, especially right this second, and it's more competitive for the assignments.

Adam: With respect to spec, I want to underline kind of what Valarie said, as we're talking to our clients, and we want to make sure that they are talking to us about their ideas before they just go and write something because they could go and write something, and there could be 12 [versions] of them out there, or they could be writing something that we know we can't sell. The market is very specific about what it's going to digest.

Valarie: But it's funny, because I think we see the market changing. I mean, it's what the studios are seeing as successful films this week, and this month is different than what they saw successful films three years ago. And I think huge IP and superhero films are always great. And we'll always, for the most part, find their audience. But I think suddenly it's like, oh, there's original stories as well, especially in the horror space. There's a ton of original stories, not based on IP that are definitely finding an audience.

Sadie: Yeah, it's very exciting. It seems that original stories are what get the eyeballs these days.

Valarie: I want to stress though, again, we represent artists. And if somebody comes to us and says, ‘I have this passion, I need to tell this story.’ And we're going to do everything within our power to find a home for it, it may not be the easiest path forward, right? It may not be something that we set up and it's made within 18 months. It might be something that takes eight, nine years to find the home. And there are certainly stories and scripts out there that all of us have loved and had taken multiple years, but we keep pushing out there to find the right people to make it. And every once in a while, the stars align. And you got the right script at the right time with the right cast and the right director and the right producer, and boom, you're off to production. We take a lot of satisfaction out of that.

Sadie: Is there a new process in how you engage your clients, projects and studios? And we'll find another term of packaging, but also getting your talent in front of investors or studios.

Andy Patman: I think that you have to go back a step. What we've learned through the streamers, lessons they've taught us, is everything is more data analytics-driven than ever. And so, what we have to do, the agents, to toot our own horn, agents have never been more needed than now. There's less agents, it's highly competitive, that people are becoming managers, because you need those advocates that are putting those pieces together. And the reason why there's fewer executives, all these companies have cut staff. Nobody's paying attention. Nobody's taking the time to nurture material, except for the representatives.

All of us, we're acting like producers, you know de facto producers, because we need to get the material in shape to attract talent to sell it. You can't just throw stuff into the marketplace and see if it sticks. We are forced to be much more strategic, creative, thoughtful about everything we do, and it just takes a lot of time. But we remain to be extremely passionate - content aficionados, if you will. So, I think that's what's happening.

And if we don't do the work, nobody else is going to do it. And that's it. We're the ones that are given the great ideas. We've got examples of projects that were passed on by the studios. And we said, ‘Well, no, no, wait a minute. Here's what we're doing differently. Here's what we're adding.’ And they say, ‘Oh, well, that makes sense. Let's reengage, we're gonna pick it up again.’ And it's just because we've done that homework and figured out how it fits within whatever algorithm they particularly want. And we do that time and time again.

So, as Valarie said, it could take eight years, you just don't know. Pick Dakota Fanning. She's now at a certain age where there's different projects available for her. And there might not have been that actress that was as meaningful as she is to engage financial backing. The only thing I wanted to add to Valarie's statement was when you're adding the cast, the director, the producer, and the financing - financing has never been as important as it is now, not finding financing, but making content within specific financial parameters. And that goes with television, as well. So that's kind of my point.

Valarie: I think also in terms of just to talk about writers, something that we all look for, writers who have something to say, right? They've got a point of view. And they have something to say and it's maybe a unique perspective or a perspective we've never seen. And that really excites us too. And it's taking maybe that perspective and putting it into a world that you want to expect them to be working in.

Sadie: And we’ll get back to that, but in terms of the financial side that you touched on there, Andy, how much of that side are you helping educate your clients in understanding data and algorithms and that side of the business so that they're set up for success?

Andy: You do a lot. I mean, we constantly are talking, you need a lot of people to represent a writer, you need colleagues that are covering studios to hear what they're looking for. I mean, it started out everybody wanted close-ended procedural, now they bought a lot of that. So now it's family drama, it changes and then you have to be able to say, ‘Oh, this right over here is a great family drama, that wasn't as viable two months ago as it is now.’ So, you have to be constantly aware of what the marketplace is looking for. So good representatives, share the needs, the wants, the mandates of the marketplace with their clients, because it's not like go write something quickly. It's like, ‘Do you have something that you're working on, because now's the time to address that.’

In addition, from the financial standpoint, we are getting a lot of feedback in television, especially that they are looking for containable productions. It's more expensive, that with you mentioned at the start, the new deal and things like that. So, there's gonna be more writer-based costs. With that said, the streamers are not going to be investing in as many huge tentpole projects, as they did in the past, Stranger Things are gonna be fewer and more far between because they spent so much money on that. So, they're looking for containable programming. And we have these conversations with our clients, you need to figure out a way to do shows that can be shot on a budget, and unfortunately, probably doesn't bode well for California production, because everybody's gonna be chasing the tax credits and things like that even more so. But that is a real factor right now in the marketplace. Now, granted, there's always the exceptions. But to getting started, they need to know that they're going to be able to produce it responsibly.

Adam: And we're always managing our client’s expectations, too. Because gone are the days - not just on the feature side - I remember back in the 90s, and the 2000s, you could take a commercial spec and send it out to producers on a Tuesday and be in negotiations on a Wednesday and have the deal closed on a Thursday. Business Affairs would call you, you'd get on the phone, and they'd say, ‘Get your client on the other line, we got to do this now.’ That never ever happens anymore. I personally have been in competitive bidding situations when it involves streamers. And the deals have taken six, seven months to close, it is wildly different than it used to be. Nothing happens quickly. And it just takes an army of lawyers on the other side of things. It's just a very different marketplace than it was back in the day, the glory days of selling specs. You could sell a spec that was literally a one-liner ‘guy gets stuck in a subway with a terrorist…’ and it's incredible how different it is these days.

Sadie: It's so different. You touched on this earlier, Valarie, the writer’s voice. Are there specific voices you’re looking for? Do you find yourselves finding writers with a strong voice but need further guidance?

Valarie: I think that's a really hard question to answer, because we will sign and work with writers across the board. So maybe somebody who comes in with a really interesting voice maybe doesn't have as much experience in the industry. And so, we can help them with structure. We can help them to fine-tune the story. The voice is, listen, it's got to be visceral, in one way or another, whatever we're reading. And if I pick up a new script, and some emotion is drawn out of me, whether it's tears, or I'm scared, or I'm laughing, if those emotions are coming out in a visceral way then I know there's something there, and there's something special. And so, I think that's what we look for is some sort of movement. And then, how does the story develop within kind of that tone and the genre?

Sadie: Yeah, absolutely.

Adam: It's kind of like a balance…there's the commerce aspect of a client and there's the talent aspect of it. And the hope is that they both meet in the middle.

Valarie: I was texting Adam over the weekend about a script. And I read the first draft a couple of months ago. And the first draft was very moving, it was really funny, I cried. But structurally, it just didn't quite work how the writer chose to tell the story. And the writer did a huge page one rewrite. And so I read it over the weekend, and it flows so much better. And the structure of how they choose to tell the story just works. It's not confusing, but I still cried in numerous spots, even though I knew those specific scenes were going to happen. And that tells me that there's something really special there.

Sadie: How do you three provide feedback and maybe help your writers navigate in how and when to take feedback?

Valarie: Can I slip in here and say something real quick before you guys jump in, not to hog the conversation but listen, it's a very sensitive position that the three of us are in. And how dare we come in and comment on something that a writer has spent six months to a year writing, and that they put their heart and soul into and they know these characters better than anybody, they know the story better than anybody. If we give them a specific line, the writer will be able to tell us what page that happened on. So, you've got to go into it very gently.

I do think though, that sometimes it's good for writers to put their material down, step away from it. And then we can come in as a fresh set of eyes, and maybe help them see things that they weren't able to see, because they were so steeped in the story that they were currently telling. So, I think that's kind of where we like to come in and help and it's never ever criticism, because who are we to criticize? We've never sat down and written a script, but it's us helping to make it that much better and that much stronger by coming in with a bird's eye view on the material.

Sadie: Adam, do you have a delicate approach to delivering feedback to your clients?

Valarie: Delicate is your middle name. [laughs]

Adam: [laughs] We like to call it the artful presentation of the truth.

Sadie: I love that.

Adam: I'm not taking credit for that.

Andy: But some of it is. You're asking for clarification. ‘I'm not seeing this,’ ‘Are you trying to do this?’ ‘Am I missing something?’ ‘Could you make this a little bit stronger?’ And then there's other points in the script where I say, ‘Oh my god, you see this scene? This is it. This is the thing that gets it made. Look at this scene again.’ It's very important and it can be uplifted. So, we look at those moments as well because when you've read as many scripts as the collective trio here, we really understand structure. We really understand marketing, and we also know where performance is going to happen. So, you can say, ‘Hey, there's some magic here, take advantage of it, you have an opportunity, grasp it.’ And so anytime we give notes, they're really open to it.

Adam: I just think that it's part of the job as representatives to give the feedback, whether it's good feedback, or sometimes it's really a difficult message you have to deliver. And I firmly believe in being transparent about your opinion. I mean, I'm not heavy-handed about it, but I do believe in delivering the tough messages as well as the good ones. Because at the end of the day, we want the best version of our clients work sent out. And if something is sent out that isn't the best version, or isn't something that's totally saleable, it hurts our clients, and quite honestly, it's not a good look for us either.

Andy: There's less executives. So, they're much more open to our feedback, because nobody has given it to him. In the olden days, we used to say, ‘Hey, we can go test the marketplace and give it to some executives at a low level, without harming it.’ And quite frankly, there's fewer of those people around, so we don't have it. So, we're basically the safety net for a lot of writers. And so, I think they understand that. Anybody that's a student of the industry gets that, and they're much more open to that.

Sadie: Which is important and beneficial. Taking a step back, how did you three get started in the industry and pivot toward becoming an agent? Maybe it’ll inspire some folks to follow your footsteps and fill out those empty executive positions.

Andy: [laughs] I was just laughing because we have kids, and we're telling them not to get into this business, it's too hard right now! [laughs] Go into law. [laughs] I originally wanted to get into the music business, went through the William Morris training program. And it was just too competitive in the music department. And I loved going to comedy clubs. So, I got into the TV literary business, and the general, homogenized answer is I love content. I love comedy and drama and why not do this - and I couldn't work at a bank.

Valarie: I was an avid reader. Loved film, and loved how writers can put sentences together, again, to make you have these feelings. And when I was in college, I had taken a number of screenwriting classes, tried my hand at it, won a screenwriting competition, and then decided that I couldn't sit in a computer by myself all day, and not have anybody to talk to. And actually, when I was young, and constantly on the phone, and my mother told me, ‘When you grow up, you better get a job where all you have to do is be on the phone all day, because that's what you're good at.’ Now she'll deny saying that, but I remember it clear as a bell.

And so, I started working at a boutique agency really kind of hoping to understand the writer and director business and the talent business better and still write at the same time, and was sucked into the world of representation and the magic that it is because it really is magical. And it's fun to represent writers across the board. They're baby writers and you make something happen, and they get that first opportunity in their career - that's magical. And if they're seasoned writers, and they're known to write in a specific genre, and they deliver something that is out of their normal genre, and they get a thrill out of that. That's magical for us, too. And it's a lot of fun. So, that's why I'm here and that's how I got started.

Adam: I'm a second-generation agent. I had the privilege of growing up in and around the movie business. I grew up loving movies, and went to film school, and quickly realized over the four-year journey at film school, that I was probably better being an advocate for artists, rather than me being the artist. And so, when I graduated, I went into a training program in the mailroom at an agency, and I've been an advocate for talent since then.

Sadie: Any advice on pitching?

Adam: Don't pitch movies. Nobody is buying pitches in the movie business, the doors closed, it was locked, and the key was thrown away. Really. There's no pitch market in movies. On the flip side, and Andy can probably talk more about this in television, we always counsel our clients to pitch shows rather than go write the script and send it out.

Andy: Really, it's preparation, you have to have a vision of what the show is, be able to artistically describe the characters, why we give a damn about them. And television is intimate and it's that age-old adage of, ‘Would you invite these people in your living room week after week?’ That is so important. The pitch is about 20 minutes, but you need to give us the setting, give us the characters, be able to articulate where this thing goes and why it has longevity.

Don't pitch limited series, because limited series is all about expensive IP. So unless you have a book, a movie, or something, it's just not going to sell as IP, because they use limited series as loss leaders, something to get a big actor, a big actress that has name recognition. They need the name recognition of the IP, and they use that to promote whether it's algorithmically or through ads, the rest of their schedule, or to attract subscribers for a certain amount of time.

Valarie: I think there's the business side of pitching. And then there's the creative side of pitching. If you find yourself, and it's nerve-racking, sitting around a table of three to five executives and pitching, it’s nerve-racking if you're on a Zoom pitch. What I like to say to people who are nervous is pretend they're all naked, no I don't really say that. [laughs] But imagine you are sitting around a campfire, your family and your friends, you are going to tell this long drawn-out ghost story, you're sucking people in and everybody's leaning in closer to the campfire, right? And then you've got the big pow moment where everybody jumps out of their seat. That's what pitching is like. So pretend you're at a campfire with your closest friends, and just draw them in and draw them in, and then bang have that big moment. That’s kind of the advice that we give to our writers when they do find themselves with the opportunity to go pitch.

Sadie: Adam, in terms of not pitching movies, how often are you advising your clients to break their feature into a television series?

Adam: I think it happens all the time. I really do. I think that we are seeing the stories that were once only being told as TV series, or only being told as movies, the boundary is dropped, there is no more boundary. So, you can tell a story that might have been a movie five or 10 years ago as a TV series, or vice versa. By the way, at our agency, our literary group meets as one literary group several days a week, our TV, film, and our theater group, we meet as one group, and we all evaluate the clients, potential clients, and the material because you never know where the best version of that material is going to live. So, we'll put stuff on weekend read, and then we'll all talk about it on Monday. And some people say, ‘Wait a minute, this is a much better idea as a series’ and then that sort of helps better inform the conversation with the clients. So, it happens all the time.

Sadie: Any words of advice for writers who are on their way to breaking into the industry?

Adam: I mean, I would say and I say this all the time, because I meet with a lot of people who are coming out of school and you know, my kids have friends who want to break into business, but you have to write, you have to write in all your spare time, you need to be writing. And the other side of it is get a job in the business and just be a sponge and be curious. And even if you're on a desk, and you're answering phones and typing letters, and it may seem like a horrible, mundane job, but being around the business and being in a place like I've always thought that working at a talent agency is whether you want to be an agent or not, it's one of the best - it's like law school or med school, but for the entertainment business. And so, it sort of helps you understand the people and the players and streaming versus traditional broadcast and theatrical and all of that. So just having a job in the business to complement what you should be doing in all of your spare time, which is writing.

Valarie: Yeah, I would I agree with that 100%. Everything you said. I would also say write what you know. And I think every writer, maybe not every writer, but people will say that they see themselves in every main character. You know, there's a little piece of themselves in every character in a script. And so, write what you know. And if you don't know it, then research the hell out of it before you sit down and start writing. You've got to be convincing.

Andy: Well, we're partners, we've known each other a million years, so, we're pretty much on the same page. Write, write, write. The only other comment I want to say to this is, as a parent and seeing a lot of our kid’s friends, I think anybody would benefit by working in an agency whether or not you want to be a writer, director, or even in this business, because it is the best training ground for business. In general, of anything, it's almost a rite of passage, to just kind of understand how things work. Just working with intensity. So be prepared to work as hard as your agents do.

Valarie: And be open. Be open to opportunities. Be open to thoughts on scripts. Don't be so stubborn, that like ‘your way is the right way.’ Just be open. It's a creative community. And nobody, unless you're one or two directors out there that goes out and makes a film completely on their own, where they write, direct it, produce it and finance it. Filmmaking is a community project. And so, you have to be a good listener.